First Strike Wins - Usually

I am of the opinion that in general (there are no absolutes) the person who strikes first and lands first has the best chance of "winning" a confrontation (I'm not talking about verbal diffusion and the events that lead up to the fight). This is because if the blow lands successfully, chances are the person being hit will be momentarily phased by the blow, which will give the attacker the opportunity to follow up with other attacks. Hence the Sucker Punch drill which allows CFD practitioners to lead with speed and devour with power.

Am I correct in my summation? I have posted this comment on other martial arts websites and people disagree. I think if they practiced this scenario in a Panic Attack drill they would find an aggressive attacker who lands the first blow is going to be all over them like white on rice while they are recovering.

But then again, I could be wrong.

100% correct IMO. In my experience, all the fights I have been involved in or witnessed were decided in under a few seconds...the time it took to land the first shot.

'Belief makes it so'

So I must disagree. Why?

REMEMBER THIS IS THE MENTAL EDGE!!!!

Simple, is your statement a useful belief to hard-wire into your psychological arsenal? [A belief must be 100% accurate for it to be of any value - the world is either flat or it is not].

Ponder these two secondary beliefs that are 'default 'creations of your primary belief.

1. If you nail the guy first and it only makes him angrier, tougher, your presumptuous assumptions actually work against as your mind, your predictions and your beliefs must re-adjust to the changing reality of your theoretical fantasy.

2. If you get nailed first, how does your belief system support 'you'. Well it doesn't. If you weather it, it is in-spite of how you mentally prepared for that moment, because you had decided first hard blow wins.

I prefer this simple belief: Whatever, whenever, wherever, I'll figure it out and do what I must.

Weigh & consider, this is the Mental Edge!

:-)

Tony

"Whatever, whenever and wherever, i'll figure it
out and do what i must."

Awesome!!!!!!!Words to live by.

Sean

I don't consider it an absolute belief, just a general rule of thumb - it is better to hit first than to be hit first.

The first strike alone will most likely not be enough to end the confrontation (unless you're lucky or unlucky, depending on if you are giving or receiving) and will likely lead to an opening for other strikes which will eventually end the confrontation.

Having this general rule of thumb in mind, I keep my hands up in a non-aggressive posture so if I get sucker punched I have a greater chance of blocking it than if my hands were down by my side. Yet at the same time I am able to sucker punch first if I feel the need.

If I am sucker punched first and get nailed, I need to be aware that the guy is probably going to come at me hard now that he perceives he has an opening so I need to cover up and recover so the situation isn't made worse.

That's how I see the situation.

That's cool, but that's not what you asked.

The distinction is important. If you were asking if I thought my system of Non-Violent Postures that help divert and deflect in-coming sucker punches as well simulataneously setting you up to launch a 'first-strike' advantage based on CWCT when negotiation fails was a good idea...well, my last post would've been a verbose: Yes.

:-)

Raptor, you [and perhaps others] need to cut me some slack when I pen philosophical ramblings.

Did you learn anything from the time and energy I took to reply? That's all that's important. Was there a realization regarding beliefs and tacitcs?

FOcus on this for a moment: I replied totally about belief systems and you answered me with a physcial discription??? Two ships passing in the night?

Are we talking about the same situation? Yep. Are we talking about the same thing. No.

The mind navigates the body.

Tony

I have been sucker punched when I was 14 by a much bigger guy and this was at the begining of my martial arts training.

I was talking with a few guys when I was smacked very hard I didnt go down but my nose bled and my face ached. tears poured from my eyes because of the blow.

I simply reacted, it was a big sloppy haymaker which came from my side. After I was hit I turned and sloppily clinched with the guy before he could hit me again. It was instinct simple as that, I didn't round kick as I had practiced in the MA room.
I wrestled him to the ground and hit him alot. The fight was broken up. The next day he arrived at school with a broken arm and I had a sore face and hurt pride.


I totally agree with Tony, all my (limited, yet humbling experiences) have shown me that what Tony says is true.( And Im not sucking up either..)

I was a pretty good TKD guy and basic grappler, after I got hit in this instance I turned into a human being fighting for what ever I had at that moment in time.

Now I train very real and I am aware that the only absolute is that there are no absolutes. And that general rules of thumb are very general and are thus obsolete any way.

Just my opinions.


All the best.

Kym Robinson, australia

I understand what you're saying. The only absolute is there are no absolutes - particularly in combat. Everything is fluid, chaotic, and unpredictable. Nothing is certain until the confrontation is over. Even then what you learned from that confrontation may not necessarily work the same in another confrontation because that is the nature of combat.

The way my mind works is I like to categorize things. This is good. That is bad. This usually works. That usually doesn't. But in the heat of battle, I'm sure all my strategies will fade away as I'm immersed in the moment, which is probably a good thing because I don't want to be distracted by what I should and should not do.

I guess in the end all you can do is perfect your tools, train realistically, and flow with the situation should a confrontation ever materialize. To cling to any preconceived notions limits your options, which is something you do not want to do when you may be fighting for your life.

NOw that's more like it!!!

:-)

Tony

Raptor Prime,
I try not to categorise even though with my university every thing must be labelled or placed in a box.

But I guess realistically if you have to say label people you would end up having to make up 0ver 6 billion boxes.
And if you were to simply label a situation or a circumstance then you would have to deal with infinite labels.

A rape is never simply a rape, its ok to look at it from a steriliesed analytical stand point. But to that victim they may never recover and have to deal with it for them selves.

Its all well and good to talk about generalties, etc, but just how general do you want to go.

Like with training realistic...what is realistic and for who ?

I have a friend who is paralysed, and he wants me to teach him self defence. How do I do this 'realistically" ?
I could lie to him and let him sit in his wheel chair and throw punches and palm strikes at a focus mit etc.
but what happens if hes on his back, when he is attacked ?
You or I could use the guard position which is realistic enough but for him ??
He has no control over his lower body...it is a cruel dillema.
My point being every thing is dictateed by ones stand point and perspective. Truth is only your perceprtion of something, reality is only an assumption you make
concerning your experiences and what you have learnt.
So reality is never as simple as to say what you do is BS and what I don is realistic, because to that person often they beleive what they are doing to be right and reality. No matter how deluded they may seem.

Just my thoughts I hope they made sense.


Kym Robinson, Australia

The fight isn't over until it's over

UwillTApout,


I totally agree.

Cool name.


Kym.

Wise words, Kym! (The ones about reality, not about UwillTApout)... :)

Lockz

Lockz,


why thank you :)


Kym.

Interesting post Raptor , but very good reply Tony!
Personally I always felt the idea was to hit first, second,third....etc,rather than just trying to get in the first punch.
Perhaps the last person who punches wins the fight (think about it!)


nice guy

And here I see a new philosophy (tactic? They are closely linked terms) developing in some twisted minds: Get the first hit and win. Logical conclusion: In any case of being face to face with a potential adversary, just punch, you can't lose (well, the upcoming fight, at least).

Sorry, just thinking about the misuse of what other people say...

Lockz

He who gets the last punch wins...hrmm
ok he hits me I clinch, I choke him I win...ooopps
I forgot to punch...

I see what you mean but...But....

It is soo soo circumstantial.

A woman is walking along thump, bang she is on the ground after being tackled, she is in shock....
Now on her back some overgrown scum is between her legs.
She is scratching, clawing, punching and bucking but to no avail, her attacker has 50 KG on her...

He hasn't punched at all yet, she has nothing is working...

Ok whats the "rule of thumb" here or the "general rule" in this circumstance...


and will she remember it ???


I have witnessed Real fights that do not have any 'punches' thrown and I have seen ones that are all punches....so what do I draw from this ???


I think Mr Blauer really sums it up a few posts above..




Whatever, whenever, wherever, I'll figure it out and do what I must. "


So very true...

but now we must get ourselves to a state of "readiness" so as to be able to intiate something from that platform..

Conditioning, Training but as realistic to as one can possibly get it..



Just my thoughts



Kym Robinson, Australia

I completely agree! There's no general rule, that's just what I wanted to point out!

Lockz

Lockz,

And I completely agree also...

:)

Kym