For Overeem To Be Truly Great...

 It is going to take getting stomped by Cain or JDS. How he emerges from that will determine his legacy. I am the biggest Reem fan there is but he is starting to have this "I know better than everyone" attitude about his training and how he matches up against other fighters.



This attitude worked wonders for Fedor. He better go the Hendo/Couture route of traveling and training with the best. Training at 1 main gym is not going to cut it anymore in mma. You have to travel and assimilate the best of various gyms.



This may even happen against Bigfoot (possible) but damn near certain with Cain/JDS... And mind you Overeem is by far my favorite fighter to watch.



I feel the 100% loyalty to 1 gym is not good anymore...it is archaic... it is like comparing the contents of a single library to the resources of the internet. Ubereem needs to evolve and become faster or he is going to get smoked with the new wave of HW's.



Perhaps it is inevitable and he is too set in his ways but he will not try until he suffers a loss, or two or three... like Fedor was forced to do. Maybe even that will be too little too late.

  

jct95 - Fedor and Alistair are two of the most humble fighters in the sport, so the "I know better than everyone" attitude really doesn't make sense. As far as training in multiple gyms, I agree with you 100%. GSP is a perfect example, training with the who's who of every discipline and never fully committing to a team. As far as Alistair losing to Cain, Bigfoot and JDS... I just don't see it happening. There are a lot of people criticizing Alistair right now but I personally I just believe it was a bad fight. I mean how many times have we forgiven Anderson and Georges, and they've had numerous fights like this one and we always seem to forgive them.



The difference is, Anderson and Georges have dominated their divisions for years, and pretty much cleaned out their respective divisions.

Werdum's best HW wins are against Paul Buentello, and Brett Rogers, and he was always a fighter in the past that had poor cardio, and suspect heart.

He needs to prove he has changed all of that, and he hasn't yet.

^^^ you mean Overeem

 Not writing him off he is my favorite fighter...Even if he loses his next 3 fights, he still would be.



Metal sharpens metal and when you tell someone like AO or Fedor, 'Hey buddy, you are sharpening your skills against scrubs compared to your opponent!" Fedor and AO will tell you to go away because they know best.



Fedor has his "spiritual father" to consult... To bad he did not tell Fedor that he was going to get ass raped twice in a row. I am sure AO has his coaches and trainers.



Fighters have to be pragmatic or they are going to get retired fast in this world of modern mma.

  

jct95 - 
FrankMirFan -  Not writing him off he is my favorite fighter...Even if he loses his next 3 fights, he still would be.



Metal sharpens metal and when you tell someone like AO or Fedor, 'Hey buddy, you are sharpening your skills against scrubs compared to your opponent!" Fedor and AO will tell you to go away because they know best.



Fedor has his "spiritual father" to consult... To bad he did not tell Fedor that he was going to get ass raped twice in a row. I am sure AO has his coaches and trainers.



Fighters have to be pragmatic or they are going to get retired fast in this world of modern mma.<br type="_moz" />  




I'm not disagreeing with you in the slightest sense, I actually think it should be mandatory that a fighter should be affiliated with not only the best camps but the best fighters. GSP is a master of this, for example he travels to remote places to train with the world's best. And this shows in his fights. As far as Alistair and Fedor, I think they should mix it up. I mean do you honestly think a Greg Jackson will hurt your overall game? But I think them not switching it up is because of the fact that their trainers are also some of their closest friends. For example, I read something about Alistair in Train Hard Fight Easy, and it said that he has trained with the same trainer ever since he was 15 or something like that.


 Still pay the guy money but you have to go somewhere after that long. WoW good info explains a lot.



Overeem or Fedor at Jackson's and TriStar in Mont. would be insane. But they would rather become obsolete than disloyal which is honorable but sad.

jct95 - 
jct95 - 
FrankMirFan -  Not writing him off he is my favorite fighter...Even if he loses his next 3 fights, he still would be.



Metal sharpens metal and when you tell someone like AO or Fedor, 'Hey buddy, you are sharpening your skills against scrubs compared to your opponent!" Fedor and AO will tell you to go away because they know best.



Fedor has his "spiritual father" to consult... To bad he did not tell Fedor that he was going to get ass raped twice in a row. I am sure AO has his coaches and trainers.



Fighters have to be pragmatic or they are going to get retired fast in this world of modern mma.<br type="_moz" />  




I'm not disagreeing with you in the slightest sense, I actually think it should be mandatory that a fighter should be affiliated with not only the best camps but the best fighters. GSP is a master of this, for example he travels to remote places to train with the world's best. And this shows in his fights. As far as Alistair and Fedor, I think they should mix it up. I mean do you honestly think a Greg Jackson will hurt your overall game? But I think them not switching it up is because of the fact that their trainers are also some of their closest friends. For example, I read something about Alistair in Train Hard Fight Easy, and it said that he has trained with the same trainer ever since he was 15 or something like that.




The thought of Alistair actually training with a Greg Jackson or a Firas Zahabi, is actually terrifying. But unfortunately, this won't happen but he did mention on the MMA hour that he was considering on moving to the US for training camps.


 If he does he may be able to beat Cain/JDS and the new wave of HW's; if he doesn't, I do not see him amounting to much.



Change or die.

jct95 - 
FrankMirFan - 
jct95 - 
jct95 - 
FrankMirFan -  Not writing him off he is my favorite fighter...Even if he loses his next 3 fights, he still would be.



Metal sharpens metal and when you tell someone like AO or Fedor, 'Hey buddy, you are sharpening your skills against scrubs compared to your opponent!" Fedor and AO will tell you to go away because they know best.



Fedor has his "spiritual father" to consult... To bad he did not tell Fedor that he was going to get ass raped twice in a row. I am sure AO has his coaches and trainers.



Fighters have to be pragmatic or they are going to get retired fast in this world of modern mma.<br type="_moz" />  




I'm not disagreeing with you in the slightest sense, I actually think it should be mandatory that a fighter should be affiliated with not only the best camps but the best fighters. GSP is a master of this, for example he travels to remote places to train with the world's best. And this shows in his fights. As far as Alistair and Fedor, I think they should mix it up. I mean do you honestly think a Greg Jackson will hurt your overall game? But I think them not switching it up is because of the fact that their trainers are also some of their closest friends. For example, I read something about Alistair in Train Hard Fight Easy, and it said that he has trained with the same trainer ever since he was 15 or something like that.




<b>The thought of Alistair actually training with a Greg Jackson or a Firas Zahabi, is actually terrifying. But unfortunately, this won't happen but he did mention on the MMA hour that he was considering on moving to the US for training camps.</b>


 If he does he may be able to beat Cain/JDS and the new wave of HW's; if he doesn't, I do not see him amounting to much.



Change or die.<br type="_moz" />




I agree with you on this, but I think a fight with another striker like Junior doesn't require a new training camp. But a hypothetical match up with Cain Velasquez definitely does. In a pure stand up fight I seriously doubt that he'll lose. He'll most likely knock out anyone that just stands with him. Velasquez on the other hand, has much more options (in regards to attacking Alistair). And more options increases your chances of winning. In all honesty, I don't know what will happen between these three. You know, we could be giving this too much thought and the notion that Alistair is the #1 guy is real. You know the elite striker vs the elite ground fighter is just a recipe for disaster (Anderson Silva vs Thales Leites/Demian Maia-Dan Henderson vs Rousimar Palhares).
Very true... simply need to see him fight more people. Werdum really was not a fight. Bigfoot is not just going to fall down so we will actually have a fight to go off of.



I believe if Alistair was more agressive with Werdum he would have won but the Fedor sub shook him and he fought not to lose rather than to win.





 

As important as changing camps would be focusing on his cardio. If you count all the time that Werdum spent on his ass, Overeem basically fought a 2 round fight and was hyperventilating 5 minutes after the fight ended during the post-fight interview.

The only way that he would beat Cain or JDS with his current cardio is by 1st round knockout.

If he changes his conditioning routine and loses a bit of muscle, perhaps get down to 245, he would be much more effective in the later rounds and likely quicker as well.

And the guy is so powerful that he would still be stronger than most after losing 10 lbs of muscle.

sage77 - As important as changing camps would be focusing on his cardio. If you count all the time that Werdum spent on his ass, Overeem basically fought a 2 round fight and was hyperventilating 5 minutes after the fight ended during the post-fight interview.



The only way that he would beat Cain or JDS with his current cardio is by 1st round knockout.



If he changes his conditioning routine and loses a bit of muscle, perhaps get down to 245, he would be much more effective in the later rounds and likely quicker as well.



And the guy is so powerful that he would still be stronger than most after losing 10 lbs of muscle.
My theory is that it was nerves not lack of cardio or huge muscles pulling oxygen.



The critics are right, he self admittedly said he had not fought top talent and I think the fight got the better of his nerves. Could be a combination of lots of things though: fear of Werdum's bjj, his brother just having lost, Werdum subbing Fedor, not facing top competition in mma for a while, lack of horse meat in Texas lol

 

 ^^ it is the mystique of subbing Fedor that freaked him out... If werdum was comming of a decision or a loss he would have most likely been tons more agressive/confident... We will never know!!

this thread was plagiarised from the numerous "For Anderson to be REALLY great" threads. 000.00 for originality tho

bhealthy - this thread was plagiarised from the numerous "For Anderson to be REALLY great" threads. 000.00 for originality tho


 Sorry AS is already great. AO is trying to prove himself to be great. And if Werdum was a sign then he has a long way to go.



To summarize:



AS= great



AO= potential greatness 

 AO = still my favorite fighter