forgot how big Sammy Scaff got Tyson's nose job

Liyon -
Fabes - 
Milford Cubicle - 
Babymonst - 
flip_guard - Scaff actually moves very well for such a big guy.

Can you imagine if that 19 year old Tyson was born 30 years later which would make him around 20 year old today and could have been an MMA fighter instead. He would be wrecking the HW and LHW.
Takedowns brow ................


look how far JDS got. look at the current HW division. 



If Tyson had trained takedowns, he would've been a murderer in the UFC. He was short, stocky and fast as fuck. Drop him down to 205 and he'd have been a wrecking machine. But yeah, it's the biggest what if ever. He did pretty good with that whole boxing thing til he went nuts.


Imagine Randleman with 50% worse wrestling, but 100% better stand-up. That's scary!

You just bottled my mind.

stevekt - 99 pound Robin Givens fucked him up.

Haha, she did indeed..

Fabes -
Liyon -
Fabes - 
Milford Cubicle - 
Babymonst - 
flip_guard - Scaff actually moves very well for such a big guy.

Can you imagine if that 19 year old Tyson was born 30 years later which would make him around 20 year old today and could have been an MMA fighter instead. He would be wrecking the HW and LHW.
Takedowns brow ................


look how far JDS got. look at the current HW division. 



If Tyson had trained takedowns, he would've been a murderer in the UFC. He was short, stocky and fast as fuck. Drop him down to 205 and he'd have been a wrecking machine. But yeah, it's the biggest what if ever. He did pretty good with that whole boxing thing til he went nuts.


Imagine Randleman with 50% worse wrestling, but 100% better stand-up. That's scary!

You just bottled my mind.

try 99% worse wrestling, lets be real.

Tyson himself had said that he wishes MMA had been around when he was fighting. He likes the option of having more than just punches.

One thing you guys are neglecting is that Tyson would have likely been a middleweight. He also only got into boxing after his stint in Tryon. I grew up looking up to Bobby Fisher (who discovered Tyson) because he was the guy out running every day and also sold penny candy at his store. I love Mike, but he would have also have needed to just randomly met someone to train him in MMA when he was incarcerated. I think this whole if Mike had a good ground game and stand up idea is really far fetched. Mike had heart so he could have gone really far, but he was also pretty shitty as a man in his younger days.
Imagine if Mike didn't go to Cus, but instead trained under one of the hundreds of MMA coaches in America. Could they keep him motivated? When Cus died Mike went from a motivated killer to a complacent would be great. He never would have gotten past Holyfield or Lewis even if he trained well. He also would have been at a reach disadvantage in MMA, and would have to use his strength to overcome positions on the ground. He wouldn't be in the GOAT discussion. I think he would be a better version of Mike Perry. And I'm a huge Tyson fan, but you guys try to draw these comparisons based on what if and give him praise for shit he wouldn't accomplish.

The size diff is crazy. He was a maniac in his day. 

cawkgobbler - One thing you guys are neglecting is that Tyson would have likely been a middleweight. He also only got into boxing after his stint in Tryon. I grew up looking up to Bobby Fisher (who discovered Tyson) because he was the guy out running every day and also sold penny candy at his store. I love Mike, but he would have also have needed to just randomly met someone to train him in MMA when he was incarcerated. I think this whole if Mike had a good ground game and stand up idea is really far fetched. Mike had heart so he could have gone really far, but he was also pretty shitty as a man in his younger days.
Imagine if Mike didn't go to Cus, but instead trained under one of the hundreds of MMA coaches in America. Could they keep him motivated? When Cus died Mike went from a motivated killer to a complacent would be great. He never would have gotten past Holyfield or Lewis even if he trained well. He also would have been at a reach disadvantage in MMA, and would have to use his strength to overcome positions on the ground. He wouldn't be in the GOAT discussion. I think he would be a better version of Mike Perry. And I'm a huge Tyson fan, but you guys try to draw these comparisons based on what if and give him praise for shit he wouldn't accomplish.

Good point, but you're really getting into the nitty-gritty/butterfly effect stuff here. Sure, everything would have to go perfectly for Tyson, or anyone else, to succeed in MMA. However, the assumption is that what made him a great boxer could also make him a great MMA fighter if the option was available, assuming all other factors being equal.

Liyon -
cawkgobbler - One thing you guys are neglecting is that Tyson would have likely been a middleweight. He also only got into boxing after his stint in Tryon. I grew up looking up to Bobby Fisher (who discovered Tyson) because he was the guy out running every day and also sold penny candy at his store. I love Mike, but he would have also have needed to just randomly met someone to train him in MMA when he was incarcerated. I think this whole if Mike had a good ground game and stand up idea is really far fetched. Mike had heart so he could have gone really far, but he was also pretty shitty as a man in his younger days.
Imagine if Mike didn't go to Cus, but instead trained under one of the hundreds of MMA coaches in America. Could they keep him motivated? When Cus died Mike went from a motivated killer to a complacent would be great. He never would have gotten past Holyfield or Lewis even if he trained well. He also would have been at a reach disadvantage in MMA, and would have to use his strength to overcome positions on the ground. He wouldn't be in the GOAT discussion. I think he would be a better version of Mike Perry. And I'm a huge Tyson fan, but you guys try to draw these comparisons based on what if and give him praise for shit he wouldn't accomplish.

Good point, but you're really getting into the nitty-gritty/butterfly effect stuff here. Sure, everything would have to go perfectly for Tyson, or anyone else, to succeed in MMA. However, the assumption is that what made him a great boxer could also make him a great MMA fighter if the option was available, assuming all other factors being equal.

Well done.

cawkgobbler - One thing you guys are neglecting is that Tyson would have likely been a middleweight. He also only got into boxing after his stint in Tryon. I grew up looking up to Bobby Fisher (who discovered Tyson) because he was the guy out running every day and also sold penny candy at his store. I love Mike, but he would have also have needed to just randomly met someone to train him in MMA when he was incarcerated. I think this whole if Mike had a good ground game and stand up idea is really far fetched. Mike had heart so he could have gone really far, but he was also pretty shitty as a man in his younger days.
Imagine if Mike didn't go to Cus, but instead trained under one of the hundreds of MMA coaches in America. Could they keep him motivated? When Cus died Mike went from a motivated killer to a complacent would be great. He never would have gotten past Holyfield or Lewis even if he trained well. He also would have been at a reach disadvantage in MMA, and would have to use his strength to overcome positions on the ground. He wouldn't be in the GOAT discussion. I think he would be a better version of Mike Perry. And I'm a huge Tyson fan, but you guys try to draw these comparisons based on what if and give him praise for shit he wouldn't accomplish.

Cus died in 1985,the year Tyson turned pro. He had been sick for a while and Kevin Rooney and Teddy Atlas had taken over handling Tyson.

So look at Hector Lombard as an example. He looked like a killer fighting lower tier guys, and has been less than impressive in the UFC. It isn't a coincidence that he loses consistently to longer guys when he can't get a quick knockout. He never shows a great gas tank, and also loses on the ground either to leverage or simply gassing. He is a Judo Olympian and has shown serious KO power. What I am saying is that Mike isn't designed for MMA even if he were to be trained by someone who could keep him under control. I get that people like him as a boxer and want to assume things with a "6 months sprawl training" mindset. I'm a huge Tyson fan and I'm also educated enough to know that the best way to look at a guy like him is to find a comparable fighter. Show me another fighter who has similar stats and I would love to continue the debate. People on here are constantly bringing up how so and so would do in a dream situation. The reality bending is beyond fathom able quite often. I lost my SN for betting against Conor, but I still look at home realistically as a great talent. Please show me a short fighter who did not only well, but was in the GOAT discussion, in heavier divisions with a boxing base. The closest are guys like DC, rumble, and Fedor. As we all know, they were all grapplers and were able to use the takedown threat to set up their hands. Rumble is more like Chuck in that he used his wrestling in reverse, but Mike never had the attitude to grow. He was fantastic as an amateur and early in his pro career, but I would love to see an example of him overcoming adversity once he faced the best in his weight class.

Stern -
cawkgobbler - One thing you guys are neglecting is that Tyson would have likely been a middleweight. He also only got into boxing after his stint in Tryon. I grew up looking up to Bobby Fisher (who discovered Tyson) because he was the guy out running every day and also sold penny candy at his store. I love Mike, but he would have also have needed to just randomly met someone to train him in MMA when he was incarcerated. I think this whole if Mike had a good ground game and stand up idea is really far fetched. Mike had heart so he could have gone really far, but he was also pretty shitty as a man in his younger days.
Imagine if Mike didn't go to Cus, but instead trained under one of the hundreds of MMA coaches in America. Could they keep him motivated? When Cus died Mike went from a motivated killer to a complacent would be great. He never would have gotten past Holyfield or Lewis even if he trained well. He also would have been at a reach disadvantage in MMA, and would have to use his strength to overcome positions on the ground. He wouldn't be in the GOAT discussion. I think he would be a better version of Mike Perry. And I'm a huge Tyson fan, but you guys try to draw these comparisons based on what if and give him praise for shit he wouldn't accomplish.

Cus died in 1985,the year Tyson turned pro. He had been sick for a while and Kevin Rooney and Teddy Atlas had taken over handling Tyson.

You are right Stern, I generalized and I do respect you as one of the more intelligent and realistic posters on this forum.

cawkgobbler -
Stern -
cawkgobbler - One thing you guys are neglecting is that Tyson would have likely been a middleweight. He also only got into boxing after his stint in Tryon. I grew up looking up to Bobby Fisher (who discovered Tyson) because he was the guy out running every day and also sold penny candy at his store. I love Mike, but he would have also have needed to just randomly met someone to train him in MMA when he was incarcerated. I think this whole if Mike had a good ground game and stand up idea is really far fetched. Mike had heart so he could have gone really far, but he was also pretty shitty as a man in his younger days.
Imagine if Mike didn't go to Cus, but instead trained under one of the hundreds of MMA coaches in America. Could they keep him motivated? When Cus died Mike went from a motivated killer to a complacent would be great. He never would have gotten past Holyfield or Lewis even if he trained well. He also would have been at a reach disadvantage in MMA, and would have to use his strength to overcome positions on the ground. He wouldn't be in the GOAT discussion. I think he would be a better version of Mike Perry. And I'm a huge Tyson fan, but you guys try to draw these comparisons based on what if and give him praise for shit he wouldn't accomplish.

Cus died in 1985,the year Tyson turned pro. He had been sick for a while and Kevin Rooney and Teddy Atlas had taken over handling Tyson.

You are right Stern, I generalized and I do respect you as one of the more intelligent and realistic posters on this forum.

Thanks.

It's a common misconception about Tyson's career and life collapsing because of Cus's death. Cus let him slide on some stuff pre 85. He was from a bad area like Tyson and was a fighter himself. Cus had to retire from injuries in a street fight.

If Tyson stayed with Rooney instead of listening to Don King he obviously would've been better off everyone knows that but even if he did I think Evander and Lewis still win. I don't particularly like that peek a boo style.

Yeah man, I don't think his style translates particularly well to MMA as well. The problems he had against longer guys would have been more apparent in a mixed rules bout. Even when Bob Sapp (who I think Tyson kills if they are both prime) called him out, he wanted nothing to do with kicks. I saw another poster say Mike wanted more options, but his interview after Kimo vs Sapp said otherwise. He would have been a pretty good cruiserweight, but I think the giants at heavyweight and even some of the more technical lower weight guys would give him problems. I think Roy Jones Jr. would have been a far better choice to fight MMA. His movement off the straight instead of just the jab is very reminiscent of Dominick Cruz.

OG 12er - Tyson himself had said that he wishes MMA had been around when he was fighting. He likes the option of having more than just punches.
When I fight, I bite.

- Mike Tyson

cawkgobbler - So look at Hector Lombard as an example. He looked like a killer fighting lower tier guys, and has been less than impressive in the UFC. It isn't a coincidence that he loses consistently to longer guys when he can't get a quick knockout. He never shows a great gas tank, and also loses on the ground either to leverage or simply gassing. He is a Judo Olympian and has shown serious KO power. What I am saying is that Mike isn't designed for MMA even if he were to be trained by someone who could keep him under control. I get that people like him as a boxer and want to assume things with a "6 months sprawl training" mindset. I'm a huge Tyson fan and I'm also educated enough to know that the best way to look at a guy like him is to find a comparable fighter. Show me another fighter who has similar stats and I would love to continue the debate. People on here are constantly bringing up how so and so would do in a dream situation. The reality bending is beyond fathom able quite often. I lost my SN for betting against Conor, but I still look at home realistically as a great talent. Please show me a short fighter who did not only well, but was in the GOAT discussion, in heavier divisions with a boxing base. The closest are guys like DC, rumble, and Fedor. As we all know, they were all grapplers and were able to use the takedown threat to set up their hands. Rumble is more like Chuck in that he used his wrestling in reverse, but Mike never had the attitude to grow. He was fantastic as an amateur and early in his pro career, but I would love to see an example of him overcoming adversity once he faced the best in his weight class.

Mr. Gobbler your assumptions are based on him not cutting weight in MMA.  If Mike was in MMA he would definitely cut weight, there would be no point in him fighting at heavyweight weighing in at 215.  If Greg Jackson or whoever, the name doesn't matter took him under their wing at 14 - 15 years old and only trained him in MMA and kept him on the straight and narrow...You don't know at what weight he would fight and what he would learn by the time he was 19 and beyond.

There are so many what if's that you can't reasonably argue one way or the other.

cawkgobbler - Yeah man, I don't think his style translates particularly well to MMA as well. The problems he had against longer guys would have been more apparent in a mixed rules bout. Even when Bob Sapp (who I think Tyson kills if they are both prime) called him out, he wanted nothing to do with kicks. I saw another poster say Mike wanted more options, but his interview after Kimo vs Sapp said otherwise. He would have been a pretty good cruiserweight, but I think the giants at heavyweight and even some of the more technical lower weight guys would give him problems. I think Roy Jones Jr. would have been a far better choice to fight MMA. His movement off the straight instead of just the jab is very reminiscent of Dominick Cruz.

I was talking more about his style in pure boxing. Lennox's jab was tremendous and he was not going to be able to consistently get past it to get on the inside.

If Mike was born in a different era and went the route of mma I'm sure he'd excel. He's a vicious violent man blessed with otherworldly power,speed,and a chin made from concrete. He's a born fighter. When Mike got out of prison in 95 he was 28. Throw him in a mma tournament and I think he'd do fine even with no or limited grappling experience.

Or give him some time on a wrestling mat. He's a natural athlete. I think he'd pick wrestling up better than most. You don't want to get caught vs that dude shooting in. He has one of the greatest uppercuts ever.

Jack Dempsey and James J Jefferies used to wrestle as to help them on the inside but the rules are so different now. Foreman as well.

Getting son'd by your son.

quality -
cawkgobbler - So look at Hector Lombard as an example. He looked like a killer fighting lower tier guys, and has been less than impressive in the UFC. It isn't a coincidence that he loses consistently to longer guys when he can't get a quick knockout. He never shows a great gas tank, and also loses on the ground either to leverage or simply gassing. He is a Judo Olympian and has shown serious KO power. What I am saying is that Mike isn't designed for MMA even if he were to be trained by someone who could keep him under control. I get that people like him as a boxer and want to assume things with a "6 months sprawl training" mindset. I'm a huge Tyson fan and I'm also educated enough to know that the best way to look at a guy like him is to find a comparable fighter. Show me another fighter who has similar stats and I would love to continue the debate. People on here are constantly bringing up how so and so would do in a dream situation. The reality bending is beyond fathom able quite often. I lost my SN for betting against Conor, but I still look at home realistically as a great talent. Please show me a short fighter who did not only well, but was in the GOAT discussion, in heavier divisions with a boxing base. The closest are guys like DC, rumble, and Fedor. As we all know, they were all grapplers and were able to use the takedown threat to set up their hands. Rumble is more like Chuck in that he used his wrestling in reverse, but Mike never had the attitude to grow. He was fantastic as an amateur and early in his pro career, but I would love to see an example of him overcoming adversity once he faced the best in his weight class.

Mr. Gobbler your assumptions are based on him not cutting weight in MMA.  If Mike was in MMA he would definitely cut weight, there would be no point in him fighting at heavyweight weighing in at 215.  If Greg Jackson or whoever, the name doesn't matter took him under their wing at 14 - 15 years old and only trained him in MMA and kept him on the straight and narrow...You don't know at what weight he would fight and what he would learn by the time he was 19 and beyond.

There are so many what if's that you can't reasonably argue one way or the other.

No man, I said he would be a middleweight on the first page.

Stern, I think early days MMA he would have done well. I was more or less speaking about modern day strategies where people were well versed in all skill sets. People keep saying he would have all these great grappling credentials, but if it were 98 I don't think he would go crazy on cross training. No matter what I say, someone will discredit it without reading, so I guess logic doesn't matter other than when I talk to you in this thread. The variables seem pretty crazy. It's like saying if Usain Bolt had decided to be a bobsledder and hooked up with the best bobsledding coaches his athletic ability would carry him in that sport. It is true that Mike possibly would have been an amazing wrestler had his life gone completely different, but what I am saying is if you look at how he came up realistically, the whole thing is ludicrous.