I'm done. The comparisons to "judo kai" (I don't even know what that is) and Hitler are sooooooooo non-applicable, that I don't feel discussing this further could possibly be anything but a complete waste of my time. Too bad, too. While we didn't agree, I thought the conversation was productive until that point.
Former Judo Kai'ers?
Just curious. How many of you tried and failed at Judo Kai, but still consider it a positive experience.
I definitely fall into that category. Despite the heartbreak, along with the wasted time and money, the experience taught me to believe in myself. It made me realize that ordinary people can fight. Obviously I always knew that, but before Judo Kai I didn't FEEL it.
would anyone encourage such a poster to redouble his judo kai efforts? because attribute failure to learn to fight to poor motivation?
no. would recognize judo kai to be flawed. and would direct the poster to mma.
and wouldn't you hold responsible the one who "allowed" (by not directing to mma in first place)for the wasted time and money?
gordon has a responsibility here by virtue of position of authority to be a critic.
"I'm done. The comparisons to "judo kai" (I don't even know what that is) and Hitler are sooooooooo non-applicable, that I don't feel discussing this further could possibly be anything but a complete waste of my time. Too bad, too. While we didn't agree, I thought the conversation was productive until that point."
-i wasn't camparing mlm's to hitler.....geez. i was only using examples where people who WANT to find good in something no matter how bad it may be, always, can, and how that sometimes such a viewpoint can be misleading or disingenuous.
i'm sorry if you feel we haven't added anything of value to the discussion, what outcome would you have considered to be usefull? it seems as if you created this thread maybe to find validation for your "possitive" mlm experience dispite having termed it to be a "failure" riddled with "hearbreak, wasted time and money". obviously it was an emotional experience for you and it was motivational. i can see how after such an experience you might have an emotional investment in mlm as a concept, but objectively it doesn't SOUND like a "possitive experience". perhaps you should take a step back and re-evaluate mlm from a new point of view. try to look at the reality of what it produces. what is it really selling? motivation and good feeling or financial success? which did it "sell" you?
i don't know what "judo kai" is either...
sorry, meant the tlc #6 ranked ultimate martial art, jukokai/combat ki!
i that where the old dudes kick each other in the nuts?
I definitely fall into that category. Despite the crushed nuts, along with a high voice and a limp, the experience taught me to believe in myself. It made me realize that ordinary people can be terribly hurt by being repeatedly hit in the nuts. Obviously I always knew that, but before jukaikia I didn't FEEL it.
yes, the world famous Internal Energy System.
"i'm sorry if you feel we haven't added anything of value to the discussion, what outcome would you have considered to be usefull?..."That's a little childish now, isn't? After I just staed this: "While we didn't agree, I thought the conversation was productive until that point.""it seems as if you created this thread maybe to find validation for your "possitive" mlm experience dispite having termed it to be a "failure" riddled with "hearbreak, wasted time and money"." "obviously it was an emotional experience for you and it was motivational. i can see how after such an experience you might have an emotional investment in mlm as a concept, but objectively it doesn't SOUND like a "possitive experience".I need no validation. The MLM part of my life passed many years ago. Go back and read my initial post again. All I wanted to convey was that, despite all the negatives of MLM (most of which I heartily agree with), I'm happy about what it did for my brain.As much as I'd like to take all the credit myself, I can't. Before MLM I was extremely poor. As a child I lived in a 2 room house. One of those rooms was a bedroom, the other was a closet. The closet was my room. That's right, the apartment didn't even have a bathroom. Things weren't always THAT bad, but we were always dirt poor.After moving out things didn't get a whole helluva lot better. I was even homeless for a while.Then somebody approached me with MLM. I got involved. I failed for the same reasons that everyone I've ever met failed: I didn't have the balls to do what it really takes to suceed.However, magic did happen. I was turned on to books like "The Magic Of Thinking Big", and many others. I learned about and met many people who went from poor to rich. I started listening to people like Zig Zilgar talk about how people can change their situations. I started to believe that, while MLM wasn't my cup of tea, that it was indeed possible for me to become something more.Did MLM give me the 3 companies I own now, 3,500 square foot home I live in, the 3 brand new cars I've owned over the past 4 years, and the 3 trips I'm taking to Europe this year? Absolutely not. But, without MLM, I don't think I would have believed in myself enough to get these things through other business mediums.Regarless of how bad you feel MLM is, I believe in giving credit where credit is due. Credit is due MLM for fixing my brain.
that you were able to take something positive from a failed experience is great and congrats on your success. BUT, it was you who deserves credit for finding a positve in the negative. to give mlm's the credit does YOU a diservice. many people have been known to make life changing realizations in prison which is great, but i would hardly say that prison, on a whole, should be termed a possitive experience and i wouldn't recommend prison to anyone. many terminally ill patients claim that their expectation of impending death has made them appreciate the life they have more and thus find happiness and accept their fate, but i wouldn't recommend terminal illness as a route to happiness. i don't want to speak for you but, your ability to come away from a painfull string of mlm experience with a positive attitude, speaks much more positively for you than it does for mlm's.
and if i am wrong and mlm's are responsible for your personal growth, fine. but how many mlm's mkt themselves as a vehicle for personal growth? none, that i know of - they are all primarily mkted as a way to find finacial reward and freedom and most fail most of their participants on this account. that they may have ancillary benifits to a certain type of person doesn't validate their failings to delivery on their primary claims. you were one of the 90% plus who came away from your mlm experience a loser, yet you came away enthused to succeed. great, but i think most people who were in your shoes and had those experiences with mlm's would have come away discouraged and a bit gun shy about making such commitments again.
Obviously I did the work, but MLM did have a positive effect on my life by introducing me to things I didn't know existed, as well as encourage me to believe in myself. Period. I was just wondering if anyone else experienced anything similar. That is all.
Read it again, dude:"Just curious. How many of you tried and failed at MLM, but still consider it a positive experience.I definitely fall into that category. Despite the heartbreak, along with the wasted time and money, the experience taught me to believe in myself. It made me realize that ordinary people can be rich. Obviously I always knew that, but before MLM I didn't FEEL it."I'm not defending or condeming MLM. Not trying to encourage others to try it or stay away from it. Not saying it's good or bad. Just stating that I came away from it with some positives, and wondering if anyone else experienced the same thing. Nothing more, nothing less.
if could do over again, scott, would you pursue mlm?
Hmmmmmmm... Damn good question. I'm not sure I can even answer it. I mean, I'm glad I got my ass kicked in 3th grade. Who knows what kind of trouble my cocky ass would have gotten into, had I not been humiliated by my cousin on that fatal day. But I'd hate to go through the 45-minute beating again.
I place tremendous value on the experience. As painful as it would be to go back and do again, I guess I'd have to say yes. Not only did it help my overall mentality and look on life, it also helped me polish my sales skills, which proved to be quite valuable later in life.
but meant if could do over with knowledge now have.
The message Gordon is trying to convey seems pretty clear to me. Watch out for the scammers but MLM as a business model has worked for some. Seems like a pretty fair statement that cannot be refuted... atleast to me.
On a related topic, regarding the attacks on Robert Kiyosaki (sp) I also agree with Gordon's statements. Kiyosaki definitely appears to be a crook after reading Johntreed.com, but I believe his books have helped many people get exposure to a different way of thinking. His concepts are elementary, and most of his writing is motivational, but somehow his books have reached many different people and shown them that there is a different way to make money other than finding a big stable corporate job to stay at for 40 years. It might be kind of sad, but I believe that this concept was brand new to many of the people who read the book.
yes, mlm/kiyosaki are better than nothing.
and if stumbled onto on own, should be grateful to for at least getting you off the couch and introducing to concepts brand new.
just as I could appreciate studying even jukokai/combat ki after discovering mma. if came across on own, would not feel that time and money spent wasted as served as an introduction.
my point is that mlm/kiyosaki/jukokai/combat ki are demonstrably inferior to the alternatives.
I *would* feel pretty betrayed if had come to this board seeking advice on a sytle to practice and had not been directed away from jukokai/combat ki toward a superior alternative (mt/bjj).
in this second case I would feel had wasted time and money.
and only pretty betrayed because of lesser import. (might never know jukokai/combat ki flaws if never fight.)
would feel absolutely betrayed if came here looking for money, business and finance advice and came away thinking mlm/kiyosaki a viable alternative.
absolutely betrayed because money, business and finance advice *important*. this should be the most responsible board on the forum.
if going to offer advice at odds with generally accepted money, business and finance thinking, should let people know upfront. might direct to fool.com for prevailing wisdom.
the message I am trying to convey is that "better than nothing" is not good enough from someone who should know better.
"good answer. but meant if could do over with knowledge now have."In that case, no way. If I had all the knowledge I aquired through MLM without having to go through the process, I'd avoid the process like the plague. I don't have what it takes to make it work.
i'm glad you didn't take it personally. it wasn't meant that way and as i said earlier, i'm sure you are well intentioned. obviously we disagree and i feel that on balance more harm is done by mlm's than good and for every positive testimonial, there are countless horror stories and broken hearts and dreams.
i agree that further debate is useless, but i'll end with this: i think mlm's prey on vulnerable people and allow the unscrupulous to get rich off of their backs (rare exceptions excluded of course).
if you read my earlier posts, i called attention to that ftc 70% rule. it is already a reality. unfortunately, it is not enforced dispite the fact that the FTC says that "most" mlm's are in violation of this rule.
like you, i hope they enforce it. it would help greatly.