Frank Shamrock top notch bjj??

Franks ground game looked pretty amazing in his mma career, especialy in his fights with the UFC, my question is how would he stack up in sub grappling matches with guys like terrell, Gracies, Penn, Busta, or other top notch grapplers that are at or near his weight.

Anybody train with him whos trained with other top end grapplers? Or have any info on whether frank has rolled with some top brazilians?

I was in the same room when Frank Shamrock showed up to the Torrance Machado academy a few years back. Really cool dude at the time and just wanted to roll. Rigan Machado grabbed a couple of the purples and we went into the private room. Frank's game at that time wasn't typical BJJ with emphasis on positions; he was more into exploding and going for submissions. I was interested to see what was going to happen with him versus Rigan but it was awesome to watch and he did one of the most athletic moves I've ever seen. Rigan had side control on Frank and Frank was a bit stuck but he did a oompa, put his feet on the side walls and started running until he flipped Rigan over, which isn't easy to do.

Nobody was going super hard, just rolling, so I didn't see any submissions but Frank definitely held his own. The funny thing was before it was him and me I told him I was also a student of Enson and Egan Inoue and he just laughed and told me he REALLY respected both of them and no hard feelings at all.

Andy Wang
/Taipei BJJ Academy

How did Frank get so good so quickly? I read he didn't start training till 1994 and was competing by 1996, that's just 2 years.

Thanks for the info fellas....more please......

"I read he didn't start training till 1994 and was competing by 1996, that's just 2 years."

2 years is a lot of time

2 years full time though! Roy Harris had a great description descibing Frank as a dolphin exploding with every move. Frank grappling skills is's different from the typical BJJ game where position is everything. My fav. fight was Frank vs. Horn. Jeremy would mount Frank but then he'll get BRIDGED after a few minutes. I like the way Jeremy Horn neutralize Frank standup...but he's known for neutralizing wrestlers and strikers. Frank kept working and eventually got the TAP. Amazing fight.

"Roy Harris had a great description descibing Frank as a dolphin exploding with every move. Frank grappling skills is great"

I have the post where Roy described his rolling session with Frank.

Its at my home computer (Im traveling for work) if this thread is still up on the first page this weekend, I will post the Roy Harris post

yeah but if you consider who horn was back then and horn almost won.....

true Fletch, but remember Shamrock didn't want the fight as he was schedule to go in for surgery (shoulder) and hadn't been training for it, he did it as a favor to SEG. And he had no video of Horn, hell nobody knew Horn was that good. SEG told Frank not to worry, and that Horn was just a easy scrub for him (they wanted Frank on to hype the card more).

What's Frank's athletic background prior to MMA. Does anyone know if he did sports in school or other types of physical activities.

he did Volleyball and that is the extent, he said that in a old interview way back.

i am just skeptical when guys dont compete in grappling, ADCC or whatever and dont fight great JJ guys.

BUSTA vs Frank is the one I want to see!!

In case this is of any interest, Roy Harris (a solid Moreira black belt and one of the best instructors out there) did say that in their rolling session, which lasted in excess of an hour, Frank did tap him once at around, I believe, the 21 minute mark with a heel hook.

"I'd put him up there with any of them. Some guys were tighter, but none were more explosive."

Absolutely correct!!! Frank is loose, but he understands the mechanics of submission better than anyone. He put a heel hook on me showing how to do it properly. He never cranked it, but I still felt the ligaments in my knee stretched. It wasn't painful, but nobody has ever put a leg submission on me where I've felt that sensation.

"And he had no video of Horn, hell nobody knew Horn was that good."

I was lucky enough to have seen a few of Horn's fights early in his career...matter of fact I have a few of them on tape. I wish I knew how to post video so the UG could have a few laughs :)


thats the thing about frank: didnt even wrestle or take tma until age 22. hes not the main man today but he did well for himself.

I heard a lot of it is attributed to his intelligence. I heard he's a way smart guy.

"What's Frank's athletic background prior to MMA."

"didnt even wrestle or take tma until age 22"

Correct me if I'm wrong. I read that he did in fact wrestle in high school, but never took it seriously.

I believe he knew Jerry Bohlander and Tito Ortiz in high school b/c of wrestling.

nope, he never wrestled. Now Pete Williams knew Bohlander because of wrestling in high school, I think he brought him into the den actually because of it. The only sport Frank did before mma was volleyball, believe it or not. I have the interview somewhere in a old Inside Kung Fu issue, it was pretty good (otherwise I wouldn't have wasted time on the mag, lol).

Frank's game was phenominal for MMA.. he was explosive, fast, and unorthadox. He thrived on the transition subs.
IMHO, he's be handled by someone like terrel or garcia or pe De Pano or Jacare or some of the other top sub guys if they just went for sub wrestling.
However, his game is tight enough that he might not get tapped, just beaten.
In MMA, he's got tools to work with.

Against Goes, it was so long ago, but he would never had gotten the chance to get that heel hook, because Goes already had gotten his back and choked him...Frank had to grab a rope.
Goes then rolled out under the ropes with the heel hook to lose a point..then the fight ended with Goes on Franks back.