FYI: Benny Hinn is a false prophet

(sorry, I should have edited this, but I might as well finish..)

m.g. my final point in this incredibly long-winded reply is that these debates are not necessarily without effect. I'm sure some curious people have started on a path to conversion via on-line discussion groups like this. And, conversely, some people have started on the path to de-conversion based upon dialogues like the ones we have here (as chilling as that may be to this forum). There are quite a few de-converted Theists over at places like the Internet Infidel forum and TalkOrigins. Theists came there to preach or to blow away the arguments of non-believers and found they were given a microscope on their own they could not put away until they could find no more reason to believe. (And, far from being sad, those folks say they are happy to have abandoned their beliefs).

So these conversations can gain deep meaning for some people's lives. That's not to say I'm here to de-convert anyone. I wouldn't want to do that, really.
But it's a place of great, lively conversation about themes I find intriguing.

Hope that was a good enough answer. (Holy crap, that was like a blog).




OK :-)

- Prof.




1. "The art or study of using language effectively and persuasively."

2."Skill in using language effectively and persuasively."

I don't mean this as a swipe, but it is my observation that Christian speakers employ more Rhetoric than I possibly could manage. Given that God doesn't exactly make personal appearances, rhetoric is often all the Christian preacher/evangelist has to bolster the faith of the troops. Along with Faith and The Holy spirit, Rhetoric has played a huge part in carrying Christianity through the centuries.

Again, that's not meant as a snipe, just observation.

(And I understood that, in accusing me you were using "rhetoric" in it's pejorative: as in intellectual insincerity. Not that I took it hard :-))


Prof, are you from Canada? Are you refering to the alliance party joining with the progressive conservatives?

Btw, I really enjoyed your last post. I can relate to your point of view as I was raised in the catholic school system and always had an interest in God. I was never very religious though but I loved to talk about this stuff.

Well in my early twenties I found myself with the mormons (too long of story) as I felt I found the "truth". As read more about them I became devastated, and decided to leave. I had an insatiable appetite for anti-mormon books written from fundamentalist christians. Well you guessed it. I became a fundamentalist/anti-evolutionist jerk.

This lasted for two years. I started reading everything I could about religion and evolution both pro and con. It was painful, but I abandoned my faith.

I still enjoyed talking about religion but I felt that religious people were idiots. I then went to school to study chemistry and fell in love with science. My spare time was spent reading science and religious/philosphy type books, and eventually I found myself picking on religious people for what I percieved as their stupidity.

Anyway as time went on I became a nicer person regardless of my beliefs, and I decided to let go of a lot of anger.

I don't know why I am sharing this with you but when I read your post it made me reflect on who I am now, and how I got here.

Btw the alliance party scares the crap out of me if this is what you are refering to.

For the record I am a practising level headed catholic who repects the views of others and I don't have an agenda. I still love how science provides an explanation for natural occuring phenomena, but I am very disappointed with todays popular music and hockey scene.

The atheist bit lasted for about ten years.

Okay, guys, you're getting off topic into something serious here, which this thread, and Benny Hinn's combover, just will not allow to happen. In the name of the almighty combover, I cast thee out, minions of serious discussion! *smacks prof, the rev and everyone else that's serious in the forehead, imparting them with the spirit of the combover*

Seriously, I always wonder, with guys like Hinn and the rest of the TBN retards out there transmitting their idiocy 24/7, how long before these idiots "poison the well"?


Well thought out post. Good reading!

Ok back to the topic at hand.


Incidently you did rise a legit point concerning how some preachers appeal to the "emotions" of the faithful.

But truth be told this is a "technique" that is used by many outside of religion. Hitler did it. Tony Robbins does it. Dr Phil, Oprah, presidential candidates from both parties, Louis Farakhan, Rush Limbaugh, countless others.

It is used by salesmen all the time.

Dr Atkins is really guilty of it.

"I found myself picking on religious people for what I percieved as their stupidity. "

I´m guilty of that kind of arrogance sometimes and can feel ashamed of it when I find myself doing that. I guess I need to mature and let go of some of that anger too. good post Cherrypicker.

Thanks Fudo, I am glad you enjoyed it.

Oh another thing.


"I've come to know how pointless and fruitless it is to discuss matters of deep conviction to those who have deep conviction. You can't really convince a person who really believes in this or that they are wrong because that person hs such deep conviction AND for you to actually put time into the matter is all the more fruitless when considering you don't believe it in the first place."

Personally I have dropped and changed ALOT of (deep) convictions in all kind of areas ranging from politics and religion to ethics, during my relatively short life (almost 30 years).

Maybe it´s because I have alwasy been a searching person and never really could be fully satisfied with secondhand information, I dunno?

many times I changed opinions thanks to people like Prof who could offer an alternative view that made alittle bit more sense that what I used to believe. Sometimes it was really difficult to let go of old convictions though, I had invested so much emotions in them and many times I also had to let go of social connections that I enjoyed. Sometimes I could feel so stupid when I looked back and realized what kind of things I believed in the past.

well, life goes on and I go with it I guess..

same here

the rev