From: dragons_forever I find that after fighting for the underhooks my opponents tend to attack me with hip throws. I was wondering if there are any counters? Or is there anything I should watch out for to avoid this from happening. Thanks From: Liua Hi dragonsforever, If you understand the mechanics of how and when to do a hip throw, it should help you in countering this move. I think your problem is if do get the underhooks but dont do anything with it, you are giving the person a perfect opportunity to do his bread n butter move. Its not an end all of positions. Keep the guy off posture with your underhooks and use it to quickly set up your takedowns. If he does managed to get a tight grip and turn into an arm n head hip throw, lower your hips below his, step back and block his hip with your free hand so he cant turn around for the throw. Hope this helps!
From: noshame "I find that after fighting for the underhooks my opponents' tend to attack me with hip throws. I was wondering if there are any counters? Or is there anything I should watch out for to avoid this from happening." first, i'll assume that you got to double underhooks. if i'm reading this correctly, you have double underhooks, he clamps down tight with overhooks, steps across and hip throws. this thread will only apply if the above assumption is correct. if it isn't, well, just chalk it up to sore fingers for me. lol i'll start by reminding you of one key points- IF YOU CONTROL THE HIPS, YOU CONTROL THE MAN. there are very few situations in which we neglect the hips and move on to some other part of the body for control (i.e. when working for a pin, we want control of the shoulders, although hip control may help). why does this matter to you? because if you have double underhooks and he's able to hip toss you- you aren't controlling his hips. when you get the hooks, sink them deep (farther in= better), so he has a harder time using your arms against you for leverage. next, don't wrap your arms high in his arm pits and around the body- this controls the shoulders, not the hips so he is still able to throw. drop as low as you can, try to get your arms all the way down to his waist. odds are, you won't actually get the waist, but maybe midway between the armpits and the waist- that's great! you'll have much better control there and much better chance of success on the takedown. oh, a final note. i hope you aren't standing straight up with the hooks high in his armpits. this a recipe for a beautiful, high throw for the opponent. remember to keep a good stance when working for the deep, low hooks. let me know if this makes sense. no shame
"...after fighting for the underhooks..."I take that to mean that you actually have the underhooks at this point, correct? Now, do you have double underhooks or just one underhook? It may seem counter intuitive, but having one as opposed to two makes a big difference in terms of proper balance and positioning. I'll try to write something as generic as possible that will apply to either situation. I suspect your primary problem here is not any specific techniques or counters, but a simple matter of positioning. There is a VERY common mistake that a lot of people make when getting into any tie-up, underhooks included. Many people have a tendency to get in a tight tie up and, for some reason, toss their stance out the window. If you don't believe me, watch two less experienced wrestlers. When they get into a tie-up, they will both have a tendency to stand straight up, knees locked out, head down, etc. Now go watch a match from something like the NCAA finals. If they get into a tie-up, both guys still maintain a good stance, and continue battling for position! Emulate the latter, not the former. DO NOT GET LAZY IN A TIE UP. Getting into a tie-up DOES NOT excuse you from maintaining proper stance and positioning. When I get into an underhook position, I'm going to continue maintaining a good stance. Ideally, I want my hips to be slightly lower than my opponent's hips, or at least no higher than his hips. If he is hip tossing you, then he is having an easy time getting his hips under yours. Remember, you want to get an underhook so that you can open up opportunities for yourself, not your opponent. Yes, usually by default your opponent will clamp down an overhook when you underhook him. BUT, if you have a GOOD underhook, his overhook will be pretty weak - little more than a token defensive attempt. By the same token, if he clamps down a good overhook, you cannot have a good underhook at the same time. Yes, you'll be in basic underhook position, but not with an underhook that is useful in any way. The two are pretty much mutually exclusive. You have good underhook: he has lame overhook. He has good overhook: you have lame underhook. (Does that make sense? Let me know if that needs clarification.) con't...
Now, exactly what is good underhook positioning? *I will describe good positioning for one underhook only, noshame covered the double underhooks pretty well.*
When I get into an underhook, I am going maintain a good stance, clamping my underhooked hand down on his shoulder muscle HARD, putting a lot of weight on his near-side foot. I'm also sucking my underhooked elbow tight to my side/ribs (which sucks his shoulder into mine), my hips tight to the side of his hips (and slightly lower if possible), and maintain dominant head position - my forehead in the side of his head/ear, almost like my cheek is against the top of my own hand that is on his shoulder. If he's got his head where mine is supposed to be, and his forehead in my ear, he's more in control than I am.
Reread the above paragraph. If any of those things are out of place, the underhook is not good. If all of those components are in place, I should have such a dominant position here that if I change my levels up and down, he will be forced to change his levels up and down with me. There is no way he should be able to hip toss me here. If he can, he is a bad bad man.
*Side note* I don't like getting double underhooks. I'm not saying it's "wrong", just that it's not comfortable for me in "my style" of wrestling. I prefer to get an underhook on one side, and then wrist control or an inside tie on the other side. I feel like I have more opportunities that way. I feel like I'm giving up some positioning if I get double unders. Just my opinion! That's what works for me, is all I'm saying. I know some guys that are very dangerous with double underhooks, but I'm not one of them. lol
*Additional side note* I don't like to get an underhook and just hang out. The underhook is best used as a very transitory position. What I mean is, the underhook is best used to rapidly change off to an offense. Ideally, I will be in an underhook for about one second (seriously). In the next second, while my opponent is still reeling and worrying about getting out of my underhook, I am already in on a high-C, double, hitting my own throw, or any of the dozens of beautiful openings an underhook provides (these rapid transitions require LOTS of drilling!).
If I just jam in an underhook, then "break out the smokes and take 5," my opponent can then readjust into a defensive posture, start clamping down on an overhook, hitting his own offense, etc. I admit that I am guilty of this more often than I would like to admit. But try to avoid hanging out here. Use the underhook to transition into a takedown IMMEDIATELY!!
From: dragons_forever Thanks for all the replys. Sorry for the crap description. I most often try to get one arm under (like Tito videos), my opponents would tend to just grab my head with the underhook side and hip throw me. I hope this clears it up a little. From: noshame ahh yes, then look at chip's info. mine related mostly to double underhooks. he covered the singles very well. no shame