GJJ vs Karate circa. 1975 Relson, Rolles etc.

ferocitytv - 
SCTom - Seriously, who is the kid at the start?

This been seen a lot? Thought it was kind of interesting. Shows more real Gracie jujitsu instead of the sport stuff we see today.



The kid at the start and the narrator are one in the same: Rorion Gracie. First two fights are a young Rorion Gracie in action.


Wrong, the young kid, is Rickson Gracie. Those fights were on the same day, so if the first two were both Rorion then he musta been taking some HGH between fights.

lol!

They trotted out some serious stiffs for that action.

parrishmma - 
ferocitytv - 
SCTom - Seriously, who is the kid at the start?

This been seen a lot? Thought it was kind of interesting. Shows more real Gracie jujitsu instead of the sport stuff we see today.



The kid at the start and the narrator are one in the same: Rorion Gracie. First two fights are a young Rorion Gracie in action.


Wrong, the young kid, is Rickson Gracie. Those fights were on the same day, so if the first two were both Rorion then he musta been taking some HGH between fights.


I looked at it again. You're right. Second fight was Rorion and first fight was Rickson. Thanks!

MickeyFinnII - lol!

They trotted out some serious stiffs for that action.


Actually, the karate school's students and teachers were all champions in karate. Everyone was a black belt champion including the owner of the school. Instead of being at the Gracie Main academy they fought on a concrete floor of a hall.

Relson once told me that Helio told all the contestants NOT to knock the students out or hurt them too badly, but to submit them all.

They were not to punch or elbow as much as the student, Relson and Rolls objected.

Relson saying something to the effect of , "Daddy, the students are trying to punch me, I'm going to punch them back then submit him."

As you can see, Rorion does not use more than a one or two punches and no elbows, Relson goes to town on his opponent. Then submits him. Rolls takes on the owner of the school and uses elbows then chokes the guy. Rolls was the best!

Helio wanted to show way back then that you did not have to permanently injure opponents to win a fight.

Hahahaha.

The Gracies deserve all the money they've made from an awesome marketing plan. As far as skill goes, you could have taken a group of high school wrestlers to any karate dojo and they would have had a field day.

ferocitytv - 
parrishmma - 
ferocitytv - 
SCTom - Seriously, who is the kid at the start?

This been seen a lot? Thought it was kind of interesting. Shows more real Gracie jujitsu instead of the sport stuff we see today.



The kid at the start and the narrator are one in the same: Rorion Gracie. First two fights are a young Rorion Gracie in action.


Wrong, the young kid, is Rickson Gracie. Those fights were on the same day, so if the first two were both Rorion then he musta been taking some HGH between fights.


I looked at it again. You're right. Second fight was Rorion and first fight was Rickson. Thanks!


No problem KKM.


hahah JK.

jjmtg - 
MickeyFinnII - lol!

They trotted out some serious stiffs for that action.


Actually, the karate school's students and teachers were all champions in karate. Everyone was a black belt champion including the owner of the school. Instead of being at the Gracie Main academy they fought on a concrete floor of a hall.

Relson once told me that Helio told all the contestants NOT to knock the students out or hurt them too badly, but to submit them all.

They were not to punch or elbow as much as the student, Relson and Rolls objected.

Relson saying something to the effect of , "Daddy, the students are trying to punch me, I'm going to punch them back then submit him."

As you can see, Rorion does not use more than a one or two punches and no elbows, Relson goes to town on his opponent. Then submits him. Rolls takes on the owner of the school and uses elbows then chokes the guy. Rolls was the best!

Helio wanted to show way back then that you did not have to permanently injure opponents to win a fight.

Hahahaha.


RIP Helio.

is that really rickson? i can only imagine the shitstorm that would happen if somebody had their 13 yr old kid fighting like that today lol

No its not Rickson.

I believe it was a young Saulo

Anybody recognize the guy Rorian is fighting?

 Actually the 13 year old kids name is Carlson Guimaraes in the first fight. I asked Rorion about it a while back... 



Carlson Guimaraes
is now a Carlson Gracie Black Belt... 

NowhereMan22000 - 
RickStorm DaddyDirtied Me - 
BUFFGEO - Gracie in Action videos are always worth watching again and again.
Problem with the todays fans is no one knows how this all got started. They dont realize that just 15 years ago no one at all knew anything about submission and grappling in fighting

That is not true.

Sambo, Judo, and Pankration all utilized submissions and grappling before GJJ. 



I think what very few knew was whether a grappler could beat a striker. I recall reading about some high level judoka thinking karate guys were the dangerous ones!


Thats because even the arts that had grappling in them didnt know how to apply them well in a real fight.

Hell, must Judo newaza is still garbage, as well as most schools that list 'Pancrase' as theyre ground style... good luck finding a Sambo school anywhere

My original statement holds true

"Hell, must Judo newaza is still garbage, as well as most schools that list 'Pancrase' as theyre ground style... good luck finding a Sambo school anywhere"

Lol...sad but true.

ttt awesome find man

RobbieH -  Actually the 13 year old kids name is Carlson Guimaraes in the first fight. I asked Rorion about it a while back... 

Carlson Guimaraes
is now a Carlson Gracie Black Belt... 



Come on... as if Rorion would know? hahah.. well thanks for the lesson. I was told for years that it was Rickson. Im glad to learn something new.

Vegaschowder - 
RickStorm DaddyDirtied Me - 
BUFFGEO - Gracie in Action videos are always worth watching again and again.
Problem with the todays fans is no one knows how this all got started. They dont realize that just 15 years ago no one at all knew anything about submission and grappling in fighting

That is not true.

Sambo, Judo, and Pankration all utilized submissions and grappling before GJJ. 


There's clearly a misunderstanding of what a complete grappling style utilized, and at the time, Brazilian jujitsu was the most complete. Now I'm not saying that the Gracies perfected any grappling system. It's just that the competitive nature of Jujitsu and its development in Brazil fueled a constant evolution both in competition and in self defense.

That being said, Judo was far from complete as leg lock techniques were seldom taught or utilized. Newaza was scarce (all of this kosen judo stuff seemed more farce than reality). Sambo was and still is a complete mystery to many people outside of Russia. Wrestling had virtually no applicable submissions. Jujitsu was it ... and nobody knew what it was.

BUFFGEO - Thats because even the arts that had grappling in them didnt know how to apply them well in a real fight.

Hell, must Judo newaza is still garbage, as well as most schools that list 'Pancrase' as theyre ground style... good luck finding a Sambo school anywhere

My original statement holds true

A little bit of misinformation, in these posts.

First of all, yes, Judo and Pankration utilized submissions prior to BJJ. However, one could argue that SAMBO's development was simultaneous to that of BJJ, and that both were derived from Judo, which in turn came from classical jujutsu ryu-ha. Pankration, however, was lost to time and wasn't resurrected until well after the independence of BJJ from Judo.

Secondly, the idea that groundfighting was only really being developed by the Gracies is a bit mythical, as well. Gene Lebell choked Milo Savage into unconsciousness using a Gi choke from the mount. Kyuzo Mifune teaches a Triangle-Choke to Armbar combination in his "Canon of Judo." Guys like Stu Hart, Billy Robinson, and Eddy Wiecz were making huge, musclebound men scream in pain on the mats.

The real innovation of Gracie Jiu-Jitsu, in my humblest of opinions, is the realization that Pinning an opponent is not an automatic win in real life. This, in my opinion, is what separated BJJ from the other grappling arts more than anything else. This allowed fights to continue on the ground for much longer, thereby allowing practitioners to become that much more familiar with working on the mats.

As a consequence of the removal of Win-by-Pin, the Guard was developed. Judo was not entirely unfamiliar with the position, sure, but it really achieved its development and familiarity under the Brazilian system. This is where it truly became apparent that being on one's back could still be a neutral position-- not a disadvantageous one.

voorhees - I dunno,didnt the Gracie more or less storm dojos non stop and beat up everyone who had no clue about grappling?

Thats kind of not cool.



It was still style vs style w/ no rules. What better way to promote the art and win people over than to let them do whatever they want...and still get subdued. GREAT way to show the effectiveness of the art ....especially since no one beliebed it as effective as other striking or power based arts like Karate,Kung Fu, boxing, etc.



That's what UFC 1 was all about. An extenion of what they were doing all those years ago....just on PPV (abd BTW Shamrrock and Severn were both MUCH bigger straonger grapplers).

They weren't trying to take adavantage of people that were ignorant about grappling....They were trying to show people that were ignorant about grappling why grappling was so important and why this particular form (Gracie JJ) was so effective since it was modified to such a great degree as to be utilized successfully by someone smaller or weaker.

Kung Fu Joe - 
Vegaschowder - 
RickStorm DaddyDirtied Me - 
BUFFGEO - Gracie in Action videos are always worth watching again and again.
Problem with the todays fans is no one knows how this all got started. They dont realize that just 15 years ago no one at all knew anything about submission and grappling in fighting

That is not true.

Sambo, Judo, and Pankration all utilized submissions and grappling before GJJ. 


There's clearly a misunderstanding of what a complete grappling style utilized, and at the time, Brazilian jujitsu was the most complete. Now I'm not saying that the Gracies perfected any grappling system. It's just that the competitive nature of Jujitsu and its development in Brazil fueled a constant evolution both in competition and in self defense.

That being said, Judo was far from complete as leg lock techniques were seldom taught or utilized. Newaza was scarce (all of this kosen judo stuff seemed more farce than reality). Sambo was and still is a complete mystery to many people outside of Russia. Wrestling had virtually no applicable submissions. Jujitsu was it ... and nobody knew what it was.

BUFFGEO - Thats because even the arts that had grappling in them didnt know how to apply them well in a real fight.

Hell, must Judo newaza is still garbage, as well as most schools that list 'Pancrase' as theyre ground style... good luck finding a Sambo school anywhere

My original statement holds true

A little bit of misinformation, in these posts.

First of all, yes, Judo and Pankration utilized submissions prior to BJJ. However, one could argue that SAMBO's development was simultaneous to that of BJJ, and that both were derived from Judo, which in turn came from classical jujutsu ryu-ha. Pankration, however, was lost to time and wasn't resurrected until well after the independence of BJJ from Judo.

Secondly, the idea that groundfighting was only really being developed by the Gracies is a bit mythical, as well. Gene Lebell choked Milo Savage into unconsciousness using a Gi choke from the mount. Kyuzo Mifune teaches a Triangle-Choke to Armbar combination in his "Canon of Judo." Guys like Stu Hart, Billy Robinson, and Eddy Wiecz were making huge, musclebound men scream in pain on the mats.

The real innovation of Gracie Jiu-Jitsu, in my humblest of opinions, is the realization that Pinning an opponent is not an automatic win in real life. This, in my opinion, is what separated BJJ from the other grappling arts more than anything else. This allowed fights to continue on the ground for much longer, thereby allowing practitioners to become that much more familiar with working on the mats.

As a consequence of the removal of Win-by-Pin, the Guard was developed. Judo was not entirely unfamiliar with the position, sure, but it really achieved its development and familiarity under the Brazilian system. This is where it truly became apparent that being on one's back could still be a neutral position-- not a disadvantageous one.


Agree. No one in BJJ is or has ever claimed they created the style or positions. What they did was demonstrate the true potential of the positions/attacks/etc

The only thing that the Gracies truely created was the innovative teaching & training methods, which allowed the freedom to really explore and progress the style quickly