Does anyone know what brown or black belts are going to compete in the GJJ World Championships in Torrance,CA Aug 19&20? Or if any black belts are interested in superfights with one of the Gracie Brothers?
I'll be in the brown belt division.
what weight Andre?
Everyone says that Ryron and Renner's BJJ is basic and old school...let's see some of the new school athletes step up and compete against Ryron and Renner.
Don't know, but if you have the chance I would definitely attend the tournament. Rener is the man - I've competed in 2 of his tournaments and they were very well run and organized (although I went outside and threw up after losing to the enventual winner in a 21 minute match that I lost on points, but at least I didn't quit although I felt like I was going to die with my asthma!). I can't wait to train with him and his brothers again in LA (unfortunately I am sidelined by a bad back injury this year) - the best teachers in the world and very nice guys.
- Steven Abood
"Everyone says that Ryron and Renner's BJJ is basic and old school...let's see some of the new school athletes step up and compete against Ryron and Renner."
Alternatively they could step up and fight the world's best at the Copa Do Mundo and the Mundials?
Jsho: don't be a hater, they want to compete against blackbelts in a less rules format, end of issue.
If I was black, I'd compete against them just to learn a new finishing technique!
"don't be a hater, they want to compete against blackbelts in a less rules format, end of issue"
Good for them, the problem is when OTHER people come out with lines like "Let's see some of the new school athletes step up and compete against Ryron and Rener", making out that the likes of Jacare, Marcelo Garcia and Roger Gracie are too scared to compete in a different match format. People easily forget that for example Roger fought in 2 divisions in Abu Dhabi last year, winning every match by sub, including forcing Cacareco to quit through exhaustion after overtime - so I doubt longer time limits would faze him.
Those guys mentioned above have proven themsleves against the best who compete under the most widely recognised set of rules in both gi and no-gi competition, so in my mind it's Ryron and Rener who need to "step up" - if they're as awesome as all their fans make out they should easily win.
So how about people stop coming out with crap about "let's see how XYZ would do in a Rorian comp" and JSho, myself and many others will stop replying with "let's see how Rorian's boys do in one of the MAJOR comps instead of just at their dad's".
eggman, I should weigh around 186 for the tournament.
Ryron has submitted 3 mundial medalists (at least).
"Ryron has submitted 3 mundial medalists (at least)."
Maybe, yet his trophy cabinet is bereft of Mundials and Copa Do Mundo Winners medals all the same.
Under 'normal rules' he beat Rafael Lovato Jr (as brown belts, and Rafael is a completely different calibre today), Cassio Werneck (who according to Gumby was ill on the day) and a number of opponents including his own brother Rener at the Pan Americans of Submission Grappling. He got ruined by Xande at the Copa Pacifica. I think he beat Fabio Leopoldo as well? I am aware that he has supposedly taken some big names in closed doors matches (although unlikely to be any of the guys i name below), but that is in the realms of teh Rickson.
But since he has not competed at the 3 big tournies, nor fought any of the current elite players in a recent open competition (guys like braulio, telles, jefferson, barral, Pe De Chumbo, Margarida, saulo, xande, marcelinho, galvao, roger, werdum, Napao, Drysdale, pe de pano, carcareco, tozi, Lagarto, jacare, maia, comprido etc). If he subbed any of these guys, i'd be a believer (although its not him i am a hater of in any case, rather the fanboy mentality of people who big him up with little hard fact).
Hopefully he will either fight in one of these tournies, or convincingly tool a respected elite grappler in the forthcoming igjjf championships.
I don't really see what the argument is. Ryron and Rener will compete against all comers in a format where the rules favor the person with the best jiu-jitsu. It doesn't matter if other rules are more "recognized". How many times have we seen the "winner" of a tournament celebrate like they won the superbowl winning on an advantage that took them from full guard to half guard? Maybe you want to play that kind of game, but I sure as hell don't. I don't think it's wrong for Ryron and Rener to want to compete in a format where the victory will actually mean something.
It is idiotic to say that someone "ruined" someone on a mere point win. Here is an unbiased account below:
The VI Copa Pacifica got of today with a BANG. The two superfights had everything anyone could want in a match.Rener Gracie submitted (foot-lock) Jorge 'Macaco' Patino. The fight opened up with Macaco getting ahead via takedown. After a slow moment and a restart Macaco got 2 more points by takedown. Another restart and Macaco pulled the half-guard. At that point Rener immediately started searching for Macaco's leg. Macaco completed a beautiful reversal to get ahead 6 x 0, but as Macaco would later admit, Rener accepted the reversal in order to attack the foot. After a struggle defending, Macaco submitted to Rener's foot lock.'Xande' Ribeiro defeated Ryron Gracie points 8 x 0 (reversal and 2 guard passes)In a very exciting match, one which the score did not fully reflect the action, Ryron and Xande exchanged attacks and positions, with the more experienced 'Xande' taking advantages of the openings to score the points. After the match 'Xande' complained about his forearms, which were double the normal size: 'My forearms feel like rocks!'
i was paraphrasing Gumby's review, apols.
"I don't really see what the argument is. Ryron and Rener will compete against all comers in a format where the rules favor the person with the best jiu-jitsu."
No they are willing to fight all comers in a format they feel most comfortable with.
"It doesn't matter if other rules are more "recognized"."
Not just more recognised, more prestigious as well. Winning the IGJJF tournie doesn't at this time have the same cachet as winning the mundials, pan ams or copa do mundo.
"How many times have we seen the "winner" of a tournament celebrate like they won the superbowl winning on an advantage that took them from full guard to half guard?"
Well Xande's celebration after beating roger in the final of the super pesdao at the Pan Ams this year sounds like that, tho Xande was probably overjoyed at beating Roger (who had at that point only been beaten by 2 People as a black belt). I'll let him off :o)
"Maybe you want to play that kind of game, but I sure as hell don't."
you and i are inconsequential in terms of BJJ, however all the best bjj players in the world seem happy with those rules and willing to play that game and there are plenty of submission victories to be seen at the CDM, Mundials and ADCC.
"I don't think it's wrong for Ryron and Rener to want to compete in a format where the victory will actually mean something."
It will mean something to them, but if they never win at one of the significant tournaments it will be a waste of their talents won't it (unless the IGJJF tournie grows to rival the CBJJO or CBJJ tournies of course).
I guess we agree to disagree
Rafael Lovato Jr or Xande
Rener fought Fabio Leopoldo and submitted him with a triangle choke. Later on in the day Rener got stopped by Gordo, after holding Gordo in a triangle choke for nearly seven minutes.
Ryron vs Xande was not close. I'm not biased as I like both of them personally, but Xande won that match handily. Hell, I should dig it up and post the video so you can decide for yourselves.
Lovato vs Ryron would be a VERY good match today. Both have improved leaps and bounds since that match, especially Lovato. He may jump into the IGJJF (hell, I talked to him last night and he may just get into the Mundials after all) as I know he wants this rematch badly.
Rener and Ryron compete a lot. Can't see how someone would argue they only compete under special circumstances. Simply is not true. You go back some years and realize that they are among the most active competing Gracies.
Pretty much every competitor I've talked to really liked the IGJJF tournament, and I think this year it will be big. A number of big names have always jumped into it, have every reason to believe there will be plenty of black belts jumping into it again.
I think Ryron surprised some people by submitting Rick McCulley this year, in a no-match. In a gi w/ IGJJF rules I'd pick Ryron everyday, but no-gi I actually McCulley was the favorite...
I've watched Rener and Ryron them since they were orange belts.
They'd been criticized for not competing since they were purple belts. I never really saw them compete much, so I guess the critics had a valid point.
This all changed when they got their brown belts. Their brown belts were still cispy and they were out there all the time. No, they haven't entered the Mundials, but they've put it on the line time and again.
I was 6 feet away when Ryron beat McCauley, and I was very impressed with the level of control Ryron had throughout the match.
They are also very humble and nice kids.
I heard some time ago that Travis Lutter was the first guy to beat I think Ryron with the gi is that true?