Pat Robertson publically announced that God personally informed him that George W will win the '04 election by a very large margin.
I don´t know if I cry or if I laugh.
Wow, how do you get: "Pat Robertson publically announced that God personally informed him that George W will win the '04 election"
from: "I think George Bush is going to win in a walk,"... and "I really believe I'm hearing from the Lord it's going to be like a blowout election in 2004. It's shaping up that way."
Notice that he began each statement with "I" think, and "I really believe". Nowhere did he say that God personally informed him.
You're another casualty of a liberal media spin elgringo.
If you want to argue about what he actually said, then feel free. But that's less dramatic isn't it?
Donna, you don't believe God talks to people? Or only people whose politics you agree with? Or only people who are apolitical?
He talks to me... he said this thread is lame!
Elgringo has been studying under cucumbersmell.
I dont know what you guys mean.
He said "I really believe Im hearing from God. . ."
That means he believes that he heard from God about the election results.
And who is cucumbersmell?
Im a liberal? lol
I don't think elgringo was lying, he just reprinted a fox news byte which was spun to imply something that it doesn't appear Robertson was saying at all. And I've never thought him to be a liberal. An antagonist maybe, but not a political liberal. :-)
There is a huge difference when someone says "God told me!" and "from what I see happening, I think God is showing me..." The former is certain and presumtuous, the latter is open to being wrong and leaves room for serious scrutiny or judgement.
God has not talked to anyone since he appeared as a burnning Bush.
In order for your statement to be correct you would have to have complete knowledge of God and every living person since the bush episode. Of course if you actually had that information that would make you God.
However if you wanted your statement to more accurately reflect the truth you should rephrase it to say that you "believe God has not talked to anyone since he appeared as a burning bush".
elgringo the liberal....ha
I have no problem for him knocking Pat Robertson, I think God speaks to people all the time in many ways, really thats what creation is, God speaking to his creatures and sustaining them. If it weren't for the relationship every living thing has with the creator, nothing would exist. Admit it or not, its the truth.
But I really can't see God being that angry if GWB isn't president again. I really don't think he cares who wins....
"I don't think elgringo was lying"
Oh I was definatly lying. The title of the thread is a quote I made up in order to get more attention.
Im not bashing Pat Robertson either. Just relaying a news article to my favorite internet forum.
But yeah, I do think Pat Robertson is crazy.
In the bible the last time God spoke to anyone directly was when he was a burning bush.
Do you think God spoke to Son of Sam as he asserts?
hrmmm....what about all of the prophet's? If God wasn't speaking to them in the bible, according to the bible, who was?
He did not appear to the prophets after the burning bush but rather they heard the voice in their heads, allegedly. Millions of whackos assert the same. Do you pick and choose as to which is real?
How about the prophet that was about to slit his son's throat because a "messenger" or "angel" told him to do so? How does that differ from what Son of Sam asserts? According to Son of Sam the word of God was relayed to him by a messenger in the form of a dog, however, the dog did not reappear at the last minute with another order from God to cease the action.
The dog was named "Sam" and he was God in Berkowitz's mind and Berkowitz was self-described as "Son of Sam" which is an annointment as being God's son.
God has talked/appeared to people since the burning bush. He talked and appeared expressely through Jesus Christ. He also talked after the OT not just words but with visions and angels.
How do we tell these from the fakes? You have to "test the spirits" and as Paul said, "If I or an angel from heaven preach any other gospel, let him be accursed".
The "sniff test" is whether the voices or visions or appearances contradict the Word of God. If someone is walking on the street claiming to be Jesus telling people to smoke pot to get to heaven...well, it don't jive. Jesus said next time he made an appearance to man, he'd step on the mount and the whole thing would split. He also gave a specific plan for salvation that does not include smoking pot.
Biblical illiteracy is what usually allows cult leaders to fake people or crazy people to believe the "voices" in their head.
rooster, Well, I think what you are saying if you apply logic, reasoning and common sense you can begin to sort things out. Then again you are picking and choosing when to use logic and reasoning. Logic and reasoning should not only be applied if it benefits your argument but also to all things.
If you apply common sense, logic, reasoning and objectivity to a comprehensive study into why you hold core beliefs which were hammered in as a youth as absolute, irrefutable truths you will become painfully enlightened IMHO.
When an individual's core beliefs are threatened in any way very often violence and shock are aroused. What I am writing now is undoubtedly very disturbing to you and you will probably rationalize that you feel sorry for me as my soul is not going to be saved, aye?
Read carefully with an open mind the biblical stories.
Who are the saints and who are the sinners?
blud: so anything you hear in your head thats outside of a strict interpretation of the bible would not be the voice of god heh?
Me: what do you mean by a "strict interpretation"? When John the Baptists declared Jesus as the "Lamb of God" I don't strictly interpret that to mean Jesus is a little furry animal. I understand the typology and symbolism used to also teach truth in the bible. My point is that the biblical exegesis seeks to harmonize various principles in the bible. If someone claimed that the world will be destroyed by a flood again and we need to build an ark, I would dismiss that as the Noaich covenent specifically states that God would not flood the earth again.
Blud: What about that OT fella who God asked to sacrifice his son to test his faith, wouldn't that fall under going agianst the thou shalt not kill commandment.
me: Good question. However Abraham was dealing with much less written revelation (prior to Mosaic law being received-which includes the commandment against murdering) and had many direct conversations with God in which God "proved" himself. He had told Abraham that Isaac, his son, would be the son of promise and that through Isaac, would come all the blessings and promises (including many descendents). So, Isaac was faced with a huge moral dilemna. Sacrifice Isaac, then what of the promises? Apparently Abraham identified that this was the voice of God. He determined that he would sacrifice Isaac and then God would resurrect him:
Hbr 11:17 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten [son],
Hbr 11:18 Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called:
Hbr 11:19 Accounting that God [was] able to raise [him] up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.
God stopped him and used the event to point in type to the offering of Jesus.
Blud: Come to think of it any part of the bible that tells you to fight against others in any way would do that wouldn't it? I mean if we are going to be strictly literal and technically correct in the application?
Me: No. There is no commandment against self defense (individually or nationally).
Blud: I mean if we are going to be strictly literal and technically correct in the application? Wouldn't thou shalt not kill also apply to all living beings not just humans? it doesn't say thou shalt not kill humans only.
Me: No. The bible says that "thou shalt no kill". The word in Hebrew is the word "murder".
PRONUNCIATION: AUDIO: mûrdr KEY
NOUN: 1. The unlawful killing of one human by another, especially with premeditated malice.
The word indicates a distinction between lawful and non lawful (ie: capital punishment) as well as a distinction between murdering people and killing an animal (which the bible also did as sacrifice/oblations were part of the temple worship).
blud: So there we have another sticking point.Any words i hear in my head that don't support my veggie beliefs are therefore not the word of god.
Me: no actually just the opposite. The bible supports meat eating and in fact condemns those who tell you to abstain from meat.
1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1Ti 4:3 Forbidding to marry, [and commanding] to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
1Ti 4:4 For every creature of God [is] good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
more coming...(Blud it appears you are biblically illiterate).
blud: Just making a point about the slippery slope we would be sliding down if we only use the bible in its most technical and literal sense as a test for all spiritual experiences.
Me: Well, I'm not sure what you mean by the most "technical and literal" since the bible certainly uses symbolism, typology, foreshadowing, poetic language etc. However, if you are biblically illiterate you certainly risk advocating a spiritual experience that could be sinister in nature.
2Cr 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
2Cr 11:15 Therefore [it is] no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
Blud: Sometimes its supposed to confound you when you have spiritual awakenings, some people slip into a form of other life, like the awakening of the kundalini. The greeks had an inscription over one of their major temples that went something like "He whom the Gods enlighten they first drive mad" or something like that.
Me: well...if a voice is telling you to murder everyone and proclaim yourself God, um...you've got a problem...;-)