going from BJJ to Muay Thai...TME

I did Bjj and had to stop cause of injuries and unsafe partners but definitely thinking of finding a Muay Thai gym especially after reading this thread! Boxing is great but want to learn how to kick but also want to still be able to work and not have to worry about injuries. Any tips on what to look for in a good  MT gym?

I did both and as I've got older and more broken I've decided boxing is the best. Far fewer injuries, not so hard on the knees. 

jgiveshead -

I did "olympic TKD before getting into muay thai.  The fucking injuries just never stopped with that nonsense.  Why anyone would limit themselves to kicking with their foot or lower in-step is beyond me.  The over-reliance on static stretching too, completely counterproductive... also a constant source of minor background pain.

Why do yo call the static stretching counterproductive?  I started focusing on it after 10+ years of Muay Thai and my kick has vastly improved.  Just curious since you come from a background with excellent kick flexibility/dexterity.  IMO, I think a lot of Muay Thai beginner programs would do well to focus on it more.

Done BJJ since 94.  Muay Thai since 2002.  I have a much easier time doing Muay Thai nowadays.  Even rolling light, the arches and pains are too much sometimes.

As long as you find good sparring partners, Muay Thai can be done longer.  At least that is my experience

nek -
jgiveshead -

I did "olympic TKD before getting into muay thai.  The fucking injuries just never stopped with that nonsense.  Why anyone would limit themselves to kicking with their foot or lower in-step is beyond me.  The over-reliance on static stretching too, completely counterproductive... also a constant source of minor background pain.

Why do yo call the static stretching counterproductive?  I started focusing on it after 10+ years of Muay Thai and my kick has vastly improved.  Just curious since you come from a background with excellent kick flexibility/dexterity.  IMO, I think a lot of Muay Thai beginner programs would do well to focus on it more.

It's possible I'm giving too much significance to my own experience and storyline.  Computer guy, math nerd.  Used to like lifting weights, but my flexibility was hot garbage.  Like, I couldn't touch my toes, and when I started TKD, I couldn't kick much higher than mid-waist. 

A lot of the problem was poor technique.  It really does take some people longer to learn how to throw a kick.  A proper kick is a symphony of all your body parts working together.  Part of it is rewiring the brain, "learning to move".  But part of it is flexibility, too.  Some people are naturally wound tighter in some muscles, looser in others.  Some muscles are longer, some shorter.  Similarly, some people because of their backgrounds, their brain is already "mostly wired" for the proper movement for a kick.  So everyone has a different starting point.  Some start really close to the final goal, some people start FAR AWAY... and that was me.

So naturally the TKD guys wanted me to focus on stationary/static stretching... pushing further into the splits, that sort of thing.  It just left me sore all the time.  I'm not really sure I ever made any progress after about 2 years of training 5-8 times a week (my club was competition oriented so I took it pretty seriously).  Don't get me wrong, I could throw a decent TKD kick, but my height was very limited.

By chance I started doing muay thai.  Took some time away from TKD.  I quit stretching 100%.  Don't get me wrong, any good gym does some warm up motions just to get your muscles loosened up.  But there's a big difference between that and pushing your range of motion to the point where it hurts... that's not a warm up, that's stretching to improve range of motion.

So yeah, I quit that TKD S T Y L E of motion, and did padwork and bagwork every day for a year.  Not doing anything specific to improve my range, but at least once a day, I'd try to throw the next kick just a little higher than the last.  My argument is that your body will learn, your brain will rewire itself for that motion, and the repetitive exercise of kicking the bag/pad itself, it's violent enough that it stretches out those muscles in the exact way that they need to be stretched out to do that kick.

After about 6 months there's nothing I couldn't kick and I felt great, no pain from stretching the whole time.  I want to call it effortless and enjoyable while building that range.  Zero static stretching.

I think there are other variables involved too.  I like to loosen up a lot by dancing around like Anderson Silva before doing anything else.  It loosens up the muscles, opens up the hips, puts you in a positive state of mind.  Jump rope helps big time, but most people don't have the discipline because it feels like such a fucking waste of time.  I was doing 30 minutes a day.  My mind hates it, it's SOOOO fucking boring.  But it trains you to keep your weight on your toes instead of your heels.  That's HUGE for pivoting the foot and turning over the hip properly.  I don't think most people realize the role it plays because so few people put in the work at the gym, hitting that fucking jump rope.  But it's very doable even for a retard, and I found that it was the single thing that was game-changing for my range, movement, explosiveness, and ultimate power because of the ability to turn over the hip so well.

Also, the way you kick the bag is different from the pads.  The angling is different.  Your body needs to learn that there are a few different ways to throw a kick, there's no one right way.  This makes sense because there are a lot of different kinds of kicks that accomplish many different things.  Both the bags and the pads, you can try to kick a little bit higher each time, and that variety of "trying to kick higher" causes the muscles to stretch out naturally over time in a "general flexibility" sense, instead of highly specialized.

FRAT. 

Static stretching didn't work for me, but normal Thai training worked wonders.  Therefore the same is true for everybody, lol.

If you're a TKD purist struggling with flexibility, there were a few kicks that I found helped my range of motion.  The crescent kicks are very similar to Thai kicks, obviously without the full turnover of the hip, but the starting point and ending point of those kicks are similar, you're kicking through, instead of snapping back to your starting position.    Also, believe it or not, the tornado kick really helped me learn how to turn over my hip.  I think being up in the air, you literally feel like you're flying, I dunno, that just helped me open up my hips a bit more to learn how that feels.  Once you do it in the air you really understand what you should be working toward on the ground.

nek -
jgiveshead -

I did "olympic TKD before getting into muay thai.  The fucking injuries just never stopped with that nonsense.  Why anyone would limit themselves to kicking with their foot or lower in-step is beyond me.  The over-reliance on static stretching too, completely counterproductive... also a constant source of minor background pain.

Why do yo call the static stretching counterproductive?  I started focusing on it after 10+ years of Muay Thai and my kick has vastly improved.  Just curious since you come from a background with excellent kick flexibility/dexterity.  IMO, I think a lot of Muay Thai beginner programs would do well to focus on it more.

One muay thai exercise that I found really helped with the "kick a little big higher than the last one" was doing the "chop down the tree" bagwork with a partner on a really big stationary Fairtex bag.  Each partner takes turns throwing a kick but it's more of a constant chop chop chop instead of lots of little pauses or repositioning.  If you've got a partner who is about your skill/range level, you'll naturally try to throw one just a little better than theirs too, and I found that we'd inch our way up to the top of the bag in no time (like, I went from kicking only mid-waist to top of the bag after one summer of doing it every day).

The partner/competition dynamic was key, but having the right bag helped too.  The stationary nature of the bag allowed me to focus on opening up my hips instead of hitting a moving target.

1 Like
jgiveshead -
nek -
jgiveshead -

I did "olympic TKD before getting into muay thai.  The fucking injuries just never stopped with that nonsense.  Why anyone would limit themselves to kicking with their foot or lower in-step is beyond me.  The over-reliance on static stretching too, completely counterproductive... also a constant source of minor background pain.

Why do yo call the static stretching counterproductive?  I started focusing on it after 10+ years of Muay Thai and my kick has vastly improved.  Just curious since you come from a background with excellent kick flexibility/dexterity.  IMO, I think a lot of Muay Thai beginner programs would do well to focus on it more.

One muay thai exercise that I found really helped with the "kick a little big higher than the last one" was doing the "chop down the tree" bagwork with a partner on a really big stationary Fairtex bag.  Each partner takes turns throwing a kick but it's more of a constant chop chop chop instead of lots of little pauses or repositioning.  If you've got a partner who is about your skill/range level, you'll naturally try to throw one just a little better than theirs too, and I found that we'd inch our way up to the top of the bag in no time (like, I went from kicking only mid-waist to top of the bag after one summer of doing it every day).

The partner/competition dynamic was key, but having the right bag helped too.  The stationary nature of the bag allowed me to focus on opening up my hips instead of hitting a moving target.

Do you have a link to any stretches for Muay Thai?

The Closed Guard -
jgiveshead -
nek -
jgiveshead -

I did "olympic TKD before getting into muay thai.  The fucking injuries just never stopped with that nonsense.  Why anyone would limit themselves to kicking with their foot or lower in-step is beyond me.  The over-reliance on static stretching too, completely counterproductive... also a constant source of minor background pain.

Why do yo call the static stretching counterproductive?  I started focusing on it after 10+ years of Muay Thai and my kick has vastly improved.  Just curious since you come from a background with excellent kick flexibility/dexterity.  IMO, I think a lot of Muay Thai beginner programs would do well to focus on it more.

One muay thai exercise that I found really helped with the "kick a little big higher than the last one" was doing the "chop down the tree" bagwork with a partner on a really big stationary Fairtex bag.  Each partner takes turns throwing a kick but it's more of a constant chop chop chop instead of lots of little pauses or repositioning.  If you've got a partner who is about your skill/range level, you'll naturally try to throw one just a little better than theirs too, and I found that we'd inch our way up to the top of the bag in no time (like, I went from kicking only mid-waist to top of the bag after one summer of doing it every day).

The partner/competition dynamic was key, but having the right bag helped too.  The stationary nature of the bag allowed me to focus on opening up my hips instead of hitting a moving target.

Do you have a link to any stretches for Muay Thai?

No man.  Any thai club I've ever been to hasn't done static stretching.  Flexibility has been built mostly through dynamic warmups/cardio, or the actual kicking itself.  That's what I was trying to say.

One other range-extending warmup that I found helpful: squats, but point your toes outward so it opens up your hips.  This actually mimics how your muscles would be configured if you'd pivoted and turned over your hips during a kick.  I've seen some clubs combine squats with front kicks... I like this combination, though I'm not *as* sure it helps with range of motion.