OR
you could teach him proper technique so he doesn't look like an idiot and get bastardised on mma forums.
Some people don't actually know bjj technique.
Thats like me posting a thread:
"some retard attended my seminar on Blaszczynski's Pathways model to Pathological Gambling. He tried to offer an opinion but I f*cking schooled that retard. How can I make him look more stupid and me smarter the next time he turns up and tries to learn something from my course?"
I am the newbie that gakami speaks of. I've had around 4-5 BJJ lessons before, but I do enjoy watching MMA. I attend gym sometimes weighing approximately 86kgs and I have done Aikido for about 2.5-3 years.
The conditions were that we were using these extra thick mats usually used for gymnastics. I wore a karate gi, while he wore gi pants with some skin tight black top. We grappled for approximately 20 minutes (I didn't time it, but it felt around that long) and eventually I tapped out due to a gi choke.
The slam gakami is referring to, was an attempt by me to pull my arms out. Gakami had me in his guard, and had been holding my right arm in an underhook (don't know if thats the proper word for it) for something like 5 minutes and I couldn't get it out. So I raised him upwards as I stood up, and tried prying my arm out, but he held on. He was lifted approximately 20 cms above ground, at which point I thought was dangerously high enough and then set him down. I did not lift him up and slam his head into the ground as per the Rampage vs Arona fight.
I've seen numerous people doing the same sort of thing at training, and didn't realise it was 'against the rules'. I'll take the precaution in the future to make sure that does not happen.
However, as to the issue of exacting revenge, in my opinion being called a 'motherf*cker', held in the gi choke by gakami for a period after after I started tapping and then being refused a second turn with a number of other verbal insults added in; is 'punishment' enough.
I would prefer to train in a co-operative and harmonious environment. I accept that it may not always be possible for different personalities to get along, but nevertheless I invite gakami, as I fully intend doing, to put the incident in the past and continue training in an amicable manner.
The way I look at it is this, if someone can pick me up and slam me, then I'm doing something wrong. So I'd want to know, allowing me to adjust what I'm doing.
I have to honestly admit, all the emphasis on sport JJ and what's allowed in tournaments concerns me. How long is it going to be until BJJ is just like TKD, and equally impractical?
I started training in 94, and back then the emphasis (at least with my teacher) was clearly self defense. We always talked about positioning to protect ourselves from strikes and the like, what to do if someone tried to slam you etc... I stopped training, and just got back into it about 4 months ago. My old teacher moved, and there is a blackbelt teaching locally, and now I never even hear strikes mentioned. Now everything seems to be about tournaments. Maybe it's just the difference between the two teachers, but it seems to be a whole different game. I only do BJJ for the fitness and fun, but it concerns me that the art has undergone such a seemingly drastic change in the 8 or 9 years I wasn't following.
I'm done going off on a tangent, but I'd use the training positively. It's good to experience different styles IMO.
arhhh the "other side of the story"..I'm interested to see where this
goes now.
It's funny I saw this thread cause I too rolled with a "newbie" last night
who "only had a couple of lessons" in BJJ. My coach quietly asked me to
roll with him and "tap him up a few times but not hard" cause he
noticed that said "newbie" had tapped a few of the other regular white
belts during rolling time and thought "that's not right?"..only a couple
of lessons??...riiight!!
I took him down, got side control and waited to see what he was going
to do. Straight away, he hips out and nearly gets me back in guard.
Pretty interesting for a few lessons hey? I pass his "kind of" guard and
knee ride him,..he hips out again, I side control, move to mount and
triangle him. I then pull guard to see what he knows,..he classically
puts his hands on my abs and elbows my inner thighs. I thinking, "he
knows a little." I go for a triangle and he immediately postures??!!!
Pretty impressive for a "newbie" I think and then sweep him, mount and
set the triangle up again BUT,..I let him roll me over too see what he'll
do. AND,...he postures up again,..so I pull his head down, and he tries
to step over my head to escape??!!! Kneeing me in the head TWICE so I
think fuck this and Kimura his ass from the triangle position. Not hard
but enough to say "don't try that shit again mate!"
Point being... don't bullshit people with this couple of lessons
shit...just admit what you've done cause people can see through the
bullshit soon enough.
If I may add, as far as I know, no policy or rule against slamming or lifting people up has been set. The club is newly established having been in operation for only about a month and the instructor hasn't mentioned rules like that to me before - though I have missed a few sessions.
actually retract what I wrote, you gotta teach this newbie a lession for trying to slam you. What was he thinking?
Make him bleed.
wanna avoid being slammed? put on some weight.
Is "Hanma Yujiro" really the newbie in question?
"...Gakami had me in his guard, and had been holding
my right arm in an underhook (don't know if thats the
proper word for it) for something like 5 minutes..."
I hate stallers.
I also hate people who get their gi pants in a bunch
after a hard training session against someone with
less experience / more size, strength, athleticism,
whatever, and come on here and ask how they should
exact "revenge" on the said training partner.
How about showing him an effective way (besides
slamming) to beat overhooks or underhooks from guard
instead of calling the new guy a "motherfucker" and
refusing to roll with him? Gakami also deserves to
get soccer kicked in the face for holding the gi
choke too long IMO.
I'm saying this because gakami comes off as a crybaby
in his posts and "Yujiro" seems like a completely
reasonable guy in his. I have no other frame of
reference, only your word against his, so sorry if I'm
off on this one.
Our instructor doesn't let newbies roll for 4-6 weeks. then he lets them no to go easy and learn. When that situation happens just tell them to not do that, or tap them out.
You can always go to side mount then knee on stomach to wear them out a bit.
"I hate stallers."
One thing I never do is stall. I'm always on the move looking for a submission or a good position or an escape. If Hanma has any integrity, he would attest to the fact that every second I was on the move, and the only way he could stall me was by laying his weight on me and holding my body or my free arm(s) down, even so I would be attemping a sweep or a positional advantage with my legs. By the way, the roll did not go for 20mins, and I did not "hang on" for 5 mins. There are other guys I train with in class who can attest to the fact that I never stall.
"I also hate people who get their gi pants in a bunch after a hard training session against someone with less experience / more size, strength, athleticism, whatever"
I grappled with several guys who were stronger and more athletic than I am during that session alone. I had absolutely no problems with them, and they were going 110% aggression at me too. In addition, these guys were weightlifters as well. No issues there.
"How about showing him an effective way (besides slamming) to beat overhooks or underhooks from guard"
Earlier in the class I spent some time openly showing him and another guy how to get a good position, and how to execute a good figurefour armlock. Again, no issues there.
"calling the new guy a "motherfucker" and refusing to roll with him?"
After we grappled, he held his hand up we slapped hands as per unspoken custom in class. I did not "refuse" to roll with him, in fact when he lost and talked about a BJJ rematch, I told him that we'd see each other and roll in class every week anyway so there's no need for any "rematch" talk. Then we swapped partners just as everyone else was doing in class, and had been doing for the entire half of that class. Everyone had a roll with everyone else in that class. Before I grappled Hanma, I had already rolled with 2-3 other guys, and then rolled with another 2 guys after Hanma. The last roll for the night that I had went for 25mins, I was absolutely exhausted by then and could not finish the fight earlier.
"Gakami also deserves to get soccer kicked in the face for holding the gi choke too long IMO."
After he tapped, I held on for maybe 2 seconds. But in response your post, I also refer to JDee's post above:
"Kneeing me in the head TWICE so I think fuck this and Kimura his ass from the triangle position. Not hard but enough to say "don't try that shit again mate!"
In response to Hanma's post:
" we were using these extra thick mats usually used for gymnastics."
These are not "extra thick" mats - there is a reason why we aren't able to train takedowns on these mats... Secondly, you knew there were gaps in the mats exposing the floor in certain parts where the mats have come apart... I'm fine grappling under those conditions but if we were to include slamming then I would change my strategy and approach.
"I've seen numerous people doing the same sort of thing at training,"
Training with who ..?
I make sure they understand its training and we go at a certain pace. If they dont get it we do some stand up and i knock em down a few times. If they are boxers going to hard i go to the ground. But try to get them to understand the concept of going easy to LEARN.
I love rolling with "the new guy" because it reminds me that not everyone will move as I expect them to.
Ask yourself this? Why did I allow him to pick me up? Why didn't you open your guard? hook an ankle etc.. to keep him from getting it.
Chances are there will be no bjj ettiquette in a streetfight. ;-)
"If he is a newbie, then tap him out!"
I did, up to the point when he attempted the slam I was intentionally going slow, staying away from using speed or brute force. He was on top in my guard (various open, closed and half) at some stage almost the whole time. But after the slam I submitted him with a cross lapel choke.
I try not to roll with newbies who spaz like that. I don't believe that it helps my game. Just tell him to calm down and focus on technique. Tell him that tapping out doesn't matter at this point in the game.
"Chances are there will be no bjj ettiquette in a streetfight. ;-)"
I agree, if this was a streetfight I'd have a completely different strategy and approach, and I certainly won't be pulling and hanging on to closed guard.
This one time in aikido class this newbie comes in and says he has
some sort of mma background or some shit. He was all muscled up
and outweighted me by a good 40 pounds.
When we started sparring, instead of running at me with a karate chop
he actually kicked me in the leg! I was pissed!
The next time we had a demonstration I cranked the wrist lock extra
hard. Then I gave him a good talking to.
That shit's not allowed in aikido.
if this was a streetfight I'd have a completely different strategy and approach,
Is that such a wise thing to do? train one way, but think another?
I know what you're saying, but the further you go from reality (chaos) the closer it resembles tma.
ex. How many guys do you know that can roll in bjj, but when mma groundwork sparring is a factor, get totally flustered.
I'm just saying, don't let him get an opportunity to slam you in the first place and you'll always be safe from that attack.
Hurt him
"ex. How many guys do you know that can roll in bjj, but when mma groundwork sparring is a factor, get totally flustered."
I know what you are saying too but we are not training for the street or mma in class, we do not train with strikes or anything like that. If we were training with strikes, then what's covered in class would have a different approach. The focus is mainly sport BJJ and lately in class it has been about positioning and maintaining it. The age range in our classes go from 15 years to 30 years old.
*edited - You know what, you're right BiC. I know what you're saying and I'll keep that in mind.
"I'm just saying, don't let him get an opportunity to slam you in the first place and you'll always be safe from that attack."
I'm definitely keeping that in mind from now!
Dont worry. There will be a point in BJJ where most newbies will feel easy as hell compared to your better rolling partners.