Let me start out by saying that I know nothing about wrestling. That's why I came to you guys. I have been looking for an alternative to BJJ. I have nothing against BJJ, but I don't have anything for it either. The problem is everything that I looked at seemed to be alot like BJJ. Then I looked at Greco Roman. The first thing that struck me was that the takedowns/throws look fu**ing brutal. The second thing seemed to be that size, and strength seem to be an advantage, whereas BJJ was formed so that a smaller person could defeat a larger one. I am very interested in getting into Greco Roman, so my question for all of you is how effective is Greco Roman off of the mat?
that is a good question.imo,i think it would be too dangerous.in my limited greco expierience,i know that most throws involve bridging.in theory,your opponent ios supposed to land first.but you could still get hurt landing on cement,foreign objects,etc.
Gunjin Ex, no offense buddy, but I disagree 100%. Greco is not all about back arch throws. That's like saying that basketball is only dunking. Back arches are just the most "glamorous" part of greco.
95% of greco is about handfighting, dominating in the clinch position, arm ties, duck unders, body-locks, whizzers, blah, blah, blah.
Greco is actually quite good for the street (IMO). The primary function of greco as it relates to the street would be executing takedowns while remaining standing, working in the clinch to get the guy down or simply off of you, etc. If you want to learn how to control the clinch and tight tie-ups, greco will develop those skills better than anything else.
Bare in mind, one weakness of greco is that it is somewhat of a narrow focus - so greco guys essentially become experts at pummeling/clinching/tie-ups - but there are many aspects of the game that are neglected (IMO). So look at it as a way to develop some very specific skills, but not a broad range of skills.
BTW - you mention that size and strength are an advantage in wrestling, while BJJ was developed so a little guy could beat a big guy.
Theoretically, wrestling was developed for the same reason. All else equal, a bigger guy will win (in grappling, in the street, whatever). A guy with good wrestling skills or good bjj skills will be able to beat a bigger but unskilled opponent. But what if the other guy has trained as well? Whether you're competing in wrestling or BJJ, if you're going against an opponent that is 100% evenly matched in terms of experience, technique, agility, speed, mental toughness, etc. BUT he's got 25 lbs on you, it's gonna be a long day.
That's why all styles of grappling have weight classes - to "level the field" a little.
Anyhoo - if you can find a good wrestling club to try out some greco (or freestyle or folkstyle for that matter), I say go for it.
Thanks, Chip. I was thinking of doing some Freestyle along with the Greco Roman to train in a broader range of wrestling. What do you think? Also, what is Folkstyle?
Absolutely do some freestyle too!
Do you live in the US? American Folkstyle (a.k.a. collegiate, or scholastic) is the traditional style of American wrestling - it's what you see in high school and college wrestling.
Take a look at a thread in the archives called "Folkstyle? Freestyle? Greco?" for a more detailed description of the various styles.
heh,i told you it was limited expierience :) i never really thought about controling an attacker standing.i was thinking just the quick throw and run.
I'm about 155-160lbs, and I work as a doorman at night.. my greco experience definitely helps me get people out the door considerably easier. It's damned hard for someone to punch you when their arms are tied up, and it's a lot easier when some idiot decides he's going to try and grab you around the head.
Hey, Chip. Thanks for the archive reference. That clears alot of things up for me. Do you know of any wrestling clubs in Dallas?
What's up, Samoobarona? Did you ever use a Greco throw on someone in the bar?
Not sure of any clubs in Dallas off-hand. But let me once again refer you to the archives. :)
There's a thread in there called "How to find a wrestling club" with some (hopefully) helpful suggestions.
You have to take into consideration that my typical job is to remove someone from the premises, by throwing them, I then have to get them off of the floor, and the situation takes a LOT longer. Have I ended up throwing a few people? Sure have, but more often than not, I'm usually locking up a trapped arm bodylock, lifting them, and walking them out the door. Tends to really tick the guy off.. a guy about 2 weeks ago, weighed about 210, rather muscular, decided he was going to run at another guy after we had separated them.. I got in the way, locked up and lifted him. As we get towards the front door and he continued trying to struggle away (with one free arm to work with) he proceeded to look down and scream out "If your little ass don't put me down..." then kind of realized the futility of making threats when he was 5feet in the air.
Greco is great. I looked at some Greco sites and basically Greco throws are the same as judo throws without a gi (minus the lower leg shoots). Judo works great for me so I know Greco has to also be great.
Greco has a totally different feel than judo. I'm a nidan in Judo as well. most of greco-roman wrestling isn't hip throws. Greco-roman wrestling is mainly fighting for position to earn a passivity, and working for a gutwrench or lift from top. from a picture perspective, they look similar, but the actual mechanics are very different.
Well, I wouldn't say most of judo is hip throws either. Throws like uchi mata, tai otoshi, sasae, osoto gari, etc are certainly more common than o goshi.
Maybe they are a little different but probably so close enough to be considered the same techniques with a mild variation? (I'm not talking about the rules in competition, rather for fighting on street).
I didn't mean to imply that judo is merely hip throws, however, Judo is mainly a throwing art. Greco-roman wrestling concentrates on controlling position, in order to earn a passivity, and gain top position...
Think of it like this.. you're grip fighting against a guy, and if he gets a shido for non combativeness.. he's put on the ground, and you get to work ne waza on him for a short bit of time. Arm and hip throws are considerably less common, most scoring on the feet comes from slide-bys, duckunders, and bodylocks.. and most of the real action in the match comes from parterre.. most judoka don't train to lift someone from parterre and backarch them over the top.
parterre-is that the same as uranage?
nope, Parterre is Mat wrestling. ne-waza.. except our "ne-waza" revolves around lifting the guy from the mat, and throwing him again.
Does that mean there are no pins in greco? You just keep throwing him over and over for points?
There are pins.. however, it's pretty hard to get someone to turn over for one.. hence the use of gutwrenches and bodylifts. As dumb as it sounds, it's sometimes easier to lift the guy from the mat, and arch him to his back, than it is to turn him over to his back.
Coming from a strictly folkstyle background(feeble attempt at high school wrestling), I was very disappointed with freestyle/greco type rules. I competed in a freestyle tournament in Guam, on the Navy base. There were ships in port from all over 7th fleet(Pacific), and the base also invited the Guam National wrestlers in. I wrestled a match against one of the Guam wrestlers, who I actually trained with at Purebred Guam. Mike was a South Pacific Games medalist in Greco, forget which medal. I started to tie up with him, but decided not to since I know zero greco. We tied up for a second, but as soon as he started working for position, I disengaged, circled, then made like I was gonna tie up again. As soon as his hands moved for me, I dropped and shot a beautiful single. He went down to his belly and flattened out. That is where the disappointment set in. Instead of working for an escape or reversal, freestyle allows you to lay on the ground and basically stall, then stand up when the other guy can't roll you over.
Not dissing freestyle, I jsut think it would be better to make it so BOTH wrestlers have to work on the ground.
Both wrestlers DO have to work. If he was able to lay down, and didn't have to do anything, then the problem isn't the guy on bottom. If the bottom guy can nullify the top man's attempts at turning him, you return to your feet, to promote action. If you had turned him, you'd have been able to continue working on top.