"GSP is also much taller and kept Sherk at a distance, something BJ won't do. Allowing Sherk inside in the striking also helps Sherks' TDs, and if he's in close, Sherk can get the TD like Hughes did to start off Rd2"
Ummm. GSP is 5'10" Penn is 5'9". Penn outstruck GSP. You can't argue he didnt do more damage.
Its not MMA math to compare their performance against a common opponent. Its common sense. ESPECIALLY since GSP is IMO a BETTER as well as bigger and stronger wrestler than Sherk, who Penn did NOT have a height/reach advantage on.
bhamill - There's practically no part of GSPs face that isn't swollen or bruised. BTW isn't that a HOSPITAL BED he's in? GSP got the split dec based on UFC criterea but cleary took a much worse beating than Penn.
Everyone seems to ignore the fact that he got his vision fucked up fairly early in the first round. (Penn seems to have a habit of poking eyes. I'm not saying it's intentional, but this wasn't the only occurrence in Penn's career.)
GSP arguably won the striking in rounds 2 and 3, which is when, according to him, he was able to see clearly again.
Penn often jabs with his thumb sticking out.
D 502 - ^ He barely eeked a decision out of BJ after getting his face rearranged and he beat Sherk up in under 2 rounds. I don't see how he sees this going anyway but BJ's.
noob
are we talking about GSP's stand up again...
really??? the same same guy that would not engage with Serra until he was all tuckered out?
"Everyone seems to ignore the fact that he got his vision fucked up fairly early in the first round."
Someone said GSP only got poked once and clipped once. I was pointing out that this CLEARLY wasn't the case.
"GSP arguably won the striking in rounds 2 and 3, which is when, according to him, he was able to see clearly again."
Which means that arguably Penn won the striking in rounds 2 and 3, while gassed, when GSP was able to see clearly again.
None of my posts are meant to denigrate GSP, he's a phenominal fighter. My only point is that Penn did well against him whereas Sherk got destroyed.
bhamill - "GSP is also much taller and kept Sherk at a distance, something BJ won't do. Allowing Sherk inside in the striking also helps Sherks' TDs, and if he's in close, Sherk can get the TD like Hughes did to start off Rd2"
Ummm. GSP is 5'10" Penn is 5'9". Penn outstruck GSP. You can't argue he didnt do more damage.
Its not MMA math to compare their performance against a common opponent. Its common sense. ESPECIALLY since GSP is IMO a BETTER as well as bigger and stronger wrestler than Sherk, who Penn did NOT have a height/reach advantage on.
GSP has a 76 inch reach. His striking is tailored towards operating on the outside. Penn's is not. He likes to be inside. There's a huge difference. GSP also kicks a lot to keep opponents in the range he wants.
What you're doing is exactly MMaMath. GSP and Penn fight nothing alike. Looking at Penn's fight against Hughes is much more illustrative of how the Sherk fight will go down, IMO, and Hughes stood with Penn all of Rd 1, throwing bombs, and Penn didn't hurt Hughes. Once the 2nd round started, Hughes got the TD right off the bat. That bodes well for Sherks's chances to secure a TD at least by Rd 2. What he can do after that is the more interesting discussion, IMO.
I remember Penn hurting Hughes with punches in their second fight
1a1 - I remember Penn hurting Hughes with punches in their second fight
He landed a nice combo. Hughes wasn't hurt by them. Was there any point in Rd 1 of the 2nd fight where Hughes looked to be in any danger?
"What you're doing is exactly MMaMath."
No its not. I actually compared GSPs wrestling with Sherks, found it superior and noted that Penn did well against GSP.
"GSP and Penn fight nothing alike."
Never said they did.
"Looking at Penn's fight against Hughes is much more illustrative of how the Sherk fight will go down, IMO, and Hughes stood with Penn all of Rd 1, throwing bombs, and Penn didn't hurt Hughes."
I think he did hurt Hughes. Plus, looking at their first fight Penn hurt Hughes badly with strikes and THEN choked him.
"Once the 2nd round started, Hughes got the TD right off the bat. That bodes well for Sherks's chances to secure a TD at least by Rd 2."
It bodes well for Sherk if BJ is in poor condition and gets another rib injury. And also if he grows as heavy and strong as Hughes. Otherwise it doesn't.
LOL. Just because you want things to be a certain way, doersn't make them so.
" What he can do after that is the more interesting discussion, IMO"
Looking at the damage Franca and Florian sustained underneath, my opinion is "not that much".
bhamill -
No its not. I actually compared GSPs wrestling with Sherks, found it superior and noted that Penn did well against GSP.
Not in the takedown department, he didn't. And if you're extrapolating further than that, you're into MMaMath territory. Your choice.
I think he did hurt Hughes. Plus, looking at their first fight Penn hurt Hughes badly with strikes and THEN choked him.
How do you figure he hurt him? Hughes was never stunned, the combo landed never led to BJ doing any more damage or putting Hughes in the least bit of danger whatsoever. It was just a combo that found it's home, nothing more.
It bodes well for Sherk if BJ is in poor condition and gets another rib injury.
So now BJ already got the rib injury before Round 2 even started? My god, the excuses for Penn know no bounds. And BJ is already admitting that he might not be in good enough shape for any later rounds. That should come as no surprise.
LOL. Just because you want things to be a certain way, doersn't make them so.
You mean like making up facts, such as BJ getting hurt in Rd 1 of the Hughes fight, cardio not possibly being a factor, and trying to equate GSP and Penn in their standup/TD defense approach? LOL.
LEET060 - MMAWeeklyRadio asked GSP about Sherk & Penn, because he has fought both of them.EightBall - WTF does he know?!?
thank god you were here to straighten that out!
"GSP got the split dec based on UFC criterea"
lol, which criteria would give a guy a win for landing two punches in the first minute (without ever so much as momentarily wobbling his opponent) and then being outstruck by like 5-1 for the rest of the fight, in addition to being taken down almost at will?
BJ will destroy Sherk!!!
"Not in the takedown department, he didn't. And if you're extrapolating further than that, you're into MMaMath territory."
LOL. You need help. In your mind YOU are allowed to make whatever comparisons you like and its valid, anyone else makes one YOU disagree with, well, its MMA math so you can feel justified dismissing it.
Actually YOU make a comparison that has been the MOST out there of anyone on this thread: that BJ Penn would have the same striking stategy as he did for GSP (extra long reach) and Hughes (normal reach), for Sherk (Tyranosaur arm reach). You really think he won't punish Sherk from outside? LOL. Coupled with your comment that all Penn did in the striking department against GSP was eye poke him and then "clip his nose when he was blinded", clearly you are delusional.
bhamill -
LOL. You need help. In your mind YOU are allowed to make whatever comparisons you like and its valid, anyone else makes one YOU disagree with, well, its MMA math so you can feel justified dismissing it.
You're rather slow on the uptake, aren't you? I haven't made any predictions on the fight, but rather have noted the incorrect perceptions or recollections people have from the Penn-GSP, Penn-Hughes, or GSP-Sherk fights. There's a distinct difference. Look into it.
Actually YOU make a comparison that has been the MOST out there of anyone on this thread: that BJ Penn would have the same striking stategy as he did for GSP (extra long reach) and Hughes (normal reach), for Sherk (Tyranosaur arm reach).
Actually, I haven't talked about BJ's strategy against Sherk. I mentioned differences between the striking styles of GSP and Penn, which are quite obvious, given the proclivity of one for kicking, and the other who has thrown around 1 kick in his past 4 fights. There's also the small detail about reach. Again, you miss the substance of the observation in your rush to make a prediction on Penn-Sherk based on past fights against fighters with vastly different styles and gameplans.
department against GSP was eye poke him and then "clip his nose when he was blinded", clearly you are delusional.
Sticking to the facts also must be a weak point of yours. I didn't say those were the only 2 strikes landed, as Penn did land quite a few punches in Rd 1. The 2 I mentioned were the ones that accounted for the vast majority of the aesthetic damage on GSP, the same damage that Penn fans continue to harp about, and one of those strikes led directly to the other, with neither actually stunning or hurting GSP. Again, there's a substantial difference that you are either missing or purposefully ignoring.
"Sticking to the facts also must be a weak point of yours. I didn't say those were the only 2 strikes landed, as Penn did land quite a few punches in Rd 1. The 2 I mentioned were the ones that accounted for the vast majority of the aesthetic damage on GSP, the same damage that Penn fans continue to harp about, and one of those strikes led directly to the other, with neither actually stunning or hurting GSP. Again, there's a substantial difference that you are either missing or purposefully ignoring."
hardcharger on first page:
"LOL at an eye poke and nose clipping to a fighter you just blinded with an eye poke = face re-arrangement."
LOL. The CLEAR implication is that was all Penn did in the fight otherwise your comment HAD no bearing on the condition of GSPs face as clearly all of the other punches could have caused the "rearrangement". You should turn your comments right back on yourself.
Especially the comparison of fighting styles. I STILL havent compared Penns strategy/style of striking to GSPs but you keep harping on it. And YOU STILL think Penn will strike on the inside with Sean "tyranosaur arms" Sherk and not from the outside because of the way he struck with GSP and Hughes.
As I said, you need help. LOL.
bhamill -
LOL. The CLEAR implication is that was all Penn did in the fight otherwise your comment HAD no bearing on the condition of GSPs face as clearly all of the other punches could have caused the "rearrangement". You should turn your comments right back on yourself.
No, that's what you want it to imply, because that's all you have to support your increasingly feeble argument. Those were the 2 strikes that caused the vast majority of the aesthetic damage. It's not difficult logic to follow, even for you.
And YOU STILL think Penn will strike on the inside with Sean "tyranosaur arms" Sherk and not from the outside because of the way he struck with GSP and Hughes.
No, and I'm rather baffled on your insistence that I hold this perspective. Are you really that hard up for someone to argue about regarding this fight? My position is merely that Sherk won't be kept at as great a distance as he was against GSP because Penn doesn't have a 76 inch reach, nor does Penn utilize kicks (high or low, lead leg or otherwise) like GSP does. Penn can still strike on the outside and not keep Sherk at the same distance GSP did.
The eye Poke messed up that fight unfortunatly...it would be nice to see these 2 fight again
"My position is merely that Sherk won't be kept at as great a distance as he was against GSP because Penn doesn't have a 76 inch reach, nor does Penn utilize kicks (high or low, lead leg or otherwise) like GSP does. Penn can still strike on the outside and not keep Sherk at the same distance GSP did."
But earlier you indicated that BJ would allow Sherk inside in the striking rather than hit him from outside...
"GSP is also much taller and kept Sherk at a distance, something BJ won't do. Allowing Sherk inside in the striking also helps Sherks' TDs, and if he's in close, Sherk can get the TD"
Do you even realize when you are contradicting yourself? Maybe it IS me not getting it. I don't feel like arguing with you, and you probably don't feel like it either. I'm taking Penn in this fight it would seem you are taking Sherk. Hopefully it will be a great fight and we can talk about it after.
My main point in all of this is that Penn did just fine against someone who does everything Sherk does only BETTER, is better rounded, bigger, stronger, and maybe faster. (GSP) I don't see Sherk doing as well against Penn. That's all. Like I said maybe after the fight you can point out that I'm wrong.
Oh, LOL for disbeliever.