i think many fighters knees get bad and theyd rather stand than shoot takedowns
Wasa-B - So Whittaker didn't attempt one TD,DC abandoned his wrestling after the first TD in the rematch,
Aldo has top notch BJJ and pretty legit offensive wrestling too but never really uses either,
I’m sure there are more cases but seems like GSP is the only good striker who still included his wrestling not as as a counter or reactive element but as part of his core comprehensive game right along side his striking.
Is he the only good striker that did this?
I guess Frankie and Weidman do both equally?
Seems like most dont utilitilize wrestling enough even as a threat to open up their striking.
I guess Cruz is another?
isnt stipe a wrestler also? maybe dc could tell after the first attempt that it was a bad idea.
“A former Golden Gloves boxing champion and NCAA Division I wrestler”
Jones didn't use any wrestling against Santos and almost lost to a guy with a fucked up knee.
GSP has one of the highest fight IQ's of all times. A true mixed martial artist who seemlessly flowed between the various skillsets at his disposal.
IIRC, GSP came from a very strong striking background. Although having some wrestling experience, it was more refined and subsequently relied upon more and more throughout his MMA career to supplement his already excellent striking. Whereas others mentioned here were more rooted in wrestling and further developed their striking.
Perhaps that’s the difference? Great wrestlers falling in love with their hands, Great strikers falling in love with their grappling.
The evolution of MMA… falling back on your strengths being a form of weakness?
In camp, (Unless you’re Ben Askren) as a great grappler, if you’re facing a better striker, do you not focus more on your standup than you typically would if you were facing another wrestler? Or as a great wrestler, when facing another wrestler, would you not focus more on your standup?
GSP is a wrestling phenom. He didn’t even know it until he began relying on it to not lose after his loss to Hughes.
Upperdog - IIRC, GSP came from a very strong striking background. Although having some wrestling experience, it was more refined and subsequently relied upon more and more throughout his MMA career to supplement his already excellent striking. Whereas others mentioned here were more rooted in wrestling and further developed their striking.Perhaps that’s the difference? Great wrestlers falling in love with their hands, Great strikers falling in love with their grappling.
The evolution of MMA… falling back on your strengths being a form of weakness?
In camp, (Unless you’re Ben Askren) as a great grappler, if you’re facing a better striker, do you not focus more on your standup than you typically would if you were facing another wrestler? Or as a great wrestler, when facing another wrestler, would you not focus more on your standup?
GSP is a wrestling phenom. He didn’t even know it until he began relying on it to not lose after his loss to Hughes.
I can’t think any any striking based fighter that fell in love with their grappling aside from GSP.
El Duderino -Jones didn't use any wrestling against Santos and almost lost to a guy with a fucked up knee.
Jones’ wrestling has absolutely disappeared to his peril. His striking is not strong enough on its own. His wrestling used to be sick. Iirc he took down Bader on his first TD attempt and he used to fucking destroy opponents on the ground. Without his grappling, he is very unspectacular (yes he KO’ed DC in the rematch but looks ordinary a lot of the time when he is striking alone).
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fathalpert -GSP has one of the highest fight IQ's of all times. A true mixed martial artist who seemlessly flowed between the various skillsets at his disposal.
Seemlessly flowed. That’s the thing that no one else can do.
Wasa-B -fathalpert -GSP has one of the highest fight IQ's of all times. A true mixed martial artist who seemlessly flowed between the various skillsets at his disposal.
Seemlessly flowed. That’s the thing that no one else can do.
TJ, Cruz, and Mighty Mouse (and, to an extent, prime Frankie) all flowed pretty seamlessly.
yomamafool -Wasa-B - So Whittaker didn't attempt one TD,DC abandoned his wrestling after the first TD in the rematch,
Aldo has top notch BJJ and pretty legit offensive wrestling too but never really uses either,
I’m sure there are more cases but seems like GSP is the only good striker who still included his wrestling not as as a counter or reactive element but as part of his core comprehensive game right along side his striking.
Is he the only good striker that did this?
I guess Frankie and Weidman do both equally?
Seems like most dont utilitilize wrestling enough even as a threat to open up their striking.
I guess Cruz is another?
isnt stipe a wrestler also? maybe dc could tell after the first attempt that it was a bad idea.
“A former Golden Gloves boxing champion and NCAA Division I wrestler”
Why, though? He got the first takedown on his first attempt with little difficulty and spent most of the round on top of Stipe beating him up.
ranier wolfcastle -i think many fighters knees get bad and theyd rather stand than shoot takedowns
I think this is true.
Plus, they drill less. If you don’t drill, you lose so much of it. GSP never stopped drilling. I think the knee problems affect the training more than the in-the-moment of competition. But, because they drill less, the go for takedowns less.
Upperdog - IIRC, GSP came from a very strong striking background. Although having some wrestling experience, it was more refined and subsequently relied upon more and more throughout his MMA career to supplement his already excellent striking. Whereas others mentioned here were more rooted in wrestling and further developed their striking.Perhaps that’s the difference? Great wrestlers falling in love with their hands, Great strikers falling in love with their grappling.
The evolution of MMA… falling back on your strengths being a form of weakness?
In camp, (Unless you’re Ben Askren) as a great grappler, if you’re facing a better striker, do you not focus more on your standup than you typically would if you were facing another wrestler? Or as a great wrestler, when facing another wrestler, would you not focus more on your standup?
GSP is a wrestling phenom. He didn’t even know it until he began relying on it to not lose after his loss to Hughes.
Incorrect about GSP only discovering his wrestling post Hughes. He was wrestling already pre-UFC (in the UCC).
Wasa-B -El Duderino -Jones didn't use any wrestling against Santos and almost lost to a guy with a fucked up knee.
Jones’ wrestling has absolutely disappeared to his peril. His striking is not strong enough on its own. His wrestling used to be sick. Iirc he took down Bader on his first TD attempt and he used to fucking destroy opponents on the ground. Without his grappling, he is very unspectacular (yes he KO’ed DC in the rematch but looks ordinary a lot of the time when he is striking alone).
His offensive wrestling was so freaking good and it is just not what it used to be.
Wasa-B - I'm talking about guys whose striking is good enough to compete in the feet but who start forgetting about their wrestling to even mix up their attack.Mendes was absolutely a very good striker (toe to toe with Aldo) but he never forgot about his wrestling. In fact, the Aldo fight is a great example - he got a few tds iirc tho Aldo got back from from them all? And Mendes also would do things like fake the TD and come up with an uppercut. THIS is exactly what I’m talking about - so Aldo has to worry about both Mendes’ striking and wrestling.
RE: Whittaker’s offensive wrestling - True Wiggs, we’ve never seen it in MMA however it surely would have helped mix it up vs Israel esp as Whittaker was too one note and Izzy figures it out.
Yup. That fight, even though it was a loss, was a masterclass in using wrestling to setup strikes.
wiggum -Wasa-B -El Duderino -Jones didn't use any wrestling against Santos and almost lost to a guy with a fucked up knee.
Jones’ wrestling has absolutely disappeared to his peril. His striking is not strong enough on its own. His wrestling used to be sick. Iirc he took down Bader on his first TD attempt and he used to fucking destroy opponents on the ground. Without his grappling, he is very unspectacular (yes he KO’ed DC in the rematch but looks ordinary a lot of the time when he is striking alone).
His offensive wrestling was so freaking good and it is just not what it used to be.
Why do u think Wiggs?
GSP even was outwrestling Karo in his UFC debut.
wiggum -yomamafool -Wasa-B - So Whittaker didn't attempt one TD,DC abandoned his wrestling after the first TD in the rematch,
Aldo has top notch BJJ and pretty legit offensive wrestling too but never really uses either,
I’m sure there are more cases but seems like GSP is the only good striker who still included his wrestling not as as a counter or reactive element but as part of his core comprehensive game right along side his striking.
Is he the only good striker that did this?
I guess Frankie and Weidman do both equally?
Seems like most dont utilitilize wrestling enough even as a threat to open up their striking.
I guess Cruz is another?
isnt stipe a wrestler also? maybe dc could tell after the first attempt that it was a bad idea.
“A former Golden Gloves boxing champion and NCAA Division I wrestler”
Why, though? He got the first takedown on his first attempt with little difficulty and spent most of the round on top of Stipe beating him up.
This
wiggum -Wasa-B -fathalpert -GSP has one of the highest fight IQ's of all times. A true mixed martial artist who seemlessly flowed between the various skillsets at his disposal.
Seemlessly flowed. That’s the thing that no one else can do.
TJ, Cruz, and Mighty Mouse (and, to an extent, prime Frankie) all flowed pretty seamlessly.
Can’t believe I forgot about MM!!
TJ Had some beautiful tds on Assuncao rematch.
For Cruz, I’ve read that all his footwork is to set up the TD. He set up a beauty on Mizugaki
Wasa-B -wiggum -Wasa-B -El Duderino -Jones didn't use any wrestling against Santos and almost lost to a guy with a fucked up knee.
Jones’ wrestling has absolutely disappeared to his peril. His striking is not strong enough on its own. His wrestling used to be sick. Iirc he took down Bader on his first TD attempt and he used to fucking destroy opponents on the ground. Without his grappling, he is very unspectacular (yes he KO’ed DC in the rematch but looks ordinary a lot of the time when he is striking alone).
His offensive wrestling was so freaking good and it is just not what it used to be.
Why do u think Wiggs?
USADA, plus the disappearance of Jackson from Jones’ every day training life. Jackson used to give Jones three things to drill in a practice and he would drill them. I don’t think he drills like he used to.
I think Jon has fun flowing with Gibson and Wink. Drilling wrestling isn’t fun.
Just a guess. I don’t have too much insider knowledge there.
Wasa-B -Upperdog - IIRC, GSP came from a very strong striking background. Although having some wrestling experience, it was more refined and subsequently relied upon more and more throughout his MMA career to supplement his already excellent striking. Whereas others mentioned here were more rooted in wrestling and further developed their striking.Perhaps that’s the difference? Great wrestlers falling in love with their hands, Great strikers falling in love with their grappling.
The evolution of MMA… falling back on your strengths being a form of weakness?
In camp, (Unless you’re Ben Askren) as a great grappler, if you’re facing a better striker, do you not focus more on your standup than you typically would if you were facing another wrestler? Or as a great wrestler, when facing another wrestler, would you not focus more on your standup?
GSP is a wrestling phenom. He didn’t even know it until he began relying on it to not lose after his loss to Hughes.
Incorrect about GSP only discovering his wrestling post Hughes. He was wrestling already pre-UFC (in the UCC).
There’s a fine line when it comes to subtle nuances. I said “refined”, then relied more upon, not “discovered”