GSP's wrestling ?

I dont know too much about amature wrestling. How would gsp stack up against the best if he trained all his life ? Phone Post 3.0

I think anything GSP did for his entire life he would win a gold medal in.

crazydave - 


I think anything GSP did for his entire life he would win a gold medal in.


Canada isn't known for producing great Olympic wrestlers, so that would be a hinderance. But GSP is a world champion, through and through. I agree with this post: it's hard to imagine him participating in a sport that isn't size-determined (i.e. basketball) and not being one of the greats.

It's hard to get a line on just how good he was at pure wrestling just by looking at his MMA career.
If we do use that as the only marker then you have to think he was amazing since he was never out-wrestled in a fight.
He could take anyone down and stuff anyone's takedowns.
Obviously there are other factors that influence the effectiveness of someone's wrestling in a MMA bout but the fact that he could not only take anyone down but also control so well from top position against wrestlers, BJJers and Judo players suggests, to me, that he could have been elite had he dedicated himself to wrestling instead of MMA. Phone Post 3.0

209'd@170 - It's hard to get a line on just how good he was at pure wrestling just by looking at his MMA career.
If we do use that as the only marker then you have to think he was amazing since he was never out-wrestled in a fight.
He could take anyone down and stuff anyone's takedowns.
Obviously there are other factors that influence the effectiveness of someone's wrestling in a MMA bout but the fact that he could not only take anyone down but also control so well from top position against wrestlers, BJJers and Judo players suggests, to me, that he could have been elite had he dedicated himself to wrestling instead of MMA. Phone Post 3.0
My technical wrestling knowledge is very limited so insight from others would be appreciated Phone Post 3.0

209'd@170 - 
209'd@170 - It's hard to get a line on just how good he was at pure wrestling just by looking at his MMA career.
If we do use that as the only marker then you have to think he was amazing since he was never out-wrestled in a fight.
He could take anyone down and stuff anyone's takedowns.
Obviously there are other factors that influence the effectiveness of someone's wrestling in a MMA bout but the fact that he could not only take anyone down but also control so well from top position against wrestlers, BJJers and Judo players suggests, to me, that he could have been elite had he dedicated himself to wrestling instead of MMA. Phone Post 3.0
My technical wrestling knowledge is very limited so insight from others would be appreciated Phone Post 3.0

GSP has great wrestling for a dude who neither wrestled competitively nor grew up wrestling. He's the best guy ever at blending wrestling and striking.

He would not score a single takedown on a world class wrestler in a pure wrestling competition and he would be destroyed at a high level in par terre (because he doesn't train it).

There was an old video that made the rounds of him competing against an NCAA wrestling at ADCC and he got the better of the takedown game. I take that with a grain of salt because wrestlers tend to "wrestle" differently in BJJ competitions with the threats of chokes.

But I don't think OP's question was about how good his wrestling is now. Obviously, GSP would get crushed against world class competition now. The question (as I understood it) was how good it would be if he trained it his whole life.

And in that case I have little doubt that he would be anything other than world-class.

Well SinCityHustler probably says GSP wouldn't make it in D1. Others will disagree. Phone Post 3.0

mkou - Well SinCityHustler probably says GSP wouldn't make it in D1. Others will disagree. Phone Post 3.0

He's right insofar as GSP would be ragdolled on the mat. He's a great grappler, but he doesn't know top-bottom wrestling for folkstyle.

He trains multiple disciplines so he wouldn't beat any of the top wrestlers, boxers or muay thai guys in their sports but he is one of those rare athletes that might do okay if he concentrated on just wrestling. I have heard he is pretty competitive with the Russian wrestlers @ the Montreal wrestling club but I haven't seen it with my own eyes so I can't confirm it. As far as MMA wresting goes he is by far the best. He barely gets taken down by the best MMA wrestlers and he manages to take them down regularly. Look at the list of great wrestlers in the Welterweight Division that he has taken down and you can't deny it's not an impressive feat.

Fight4Food - Hendrix* Phone Post 3.0
Try again... Phone Post 3.0

At one point GSP entertained the idea of trying to qualify for the Canadian Olympic team and team officials didn't laugh him off whatsoever and actually hoped he'd give it a serious try. Obviously they would've loved the publicity he'd bring but they had massive respect for what others here have pointed out and why they thought he had potential........his willingness to learn and his tremendous work ethic. Phone Post 3.0

Canada wanted to bring him in to try to qualify for the 2012 Summer Games.  If he would have started wrestling as a kid and did it his whole life?  Probably a medalist in the Olympics. 

Hendricks and Koscheck were both highly decorated wrestlers. And neither could even dream of taking GSP down, so I tend to think GSP would be a fucking fantastic wrestler if he wanted Phone Post 3.0

One Championship Fan - Hendricks and Koscheck were both highly decorated wrestlers. And neither could even dream of taking GSP down, so I tend to think GSP would be a fucking fantastic wrestler if he wanted Phone Post 3.0
Yup. And that was when koschek was taking everyone down. Phone Post 3.0

wiggum -
crazydave - 


I think anything GSP did for his entire life he would win a gold medal in.


Canada isn't known for producing great Olympic wrestlers, so that would be a hinderance. But GSP is a world champion, through and through. I agree with this post: it's hard to imagine him participating in a sport that isn't size-determined (i.e. basketball) and not being one of the greats.
It doesn't matter where you're born or where you end up living.

It's all about genetics, intelligence, work ethic, luck, passion, motivation, and timing.

People holding the genetics that can combine to create an above average person can fuck and have a baby anywhere in the world. A person born in the USA can become the greatest lacrosse player. Phone Post 3.0

tetris -
One Championship Fan - Hendricks and Koscheck were both highly decorated wrestlers. And neither could even dream of taking GSP down, so I tend to think GSP would be a fucking fantastic wrestler if he wanted Phone Post 3.0
Yup. And that was when koschek was taking everyone down. Phone Post 3.0
First koscheck fight gsp outwrestled him. Second one they both had a couple takedowns on each other. The wrestling was pretty even iirc. Phone Post 3.0

da Vinci 81 -
tetris -
One Championship Fan - Hendricks and Koscheck were both highly decorated wrestlers. And neither could even dream of taking GSP down, so I tend to think GSP would be a fucking fantastic wrestler if he wanted Phone Post 3.0
Yup. And that was when koschek was taking everyone down. Phone Post 3.0
First koscheck fight gsp outwrestled him. Second one they both had a couple takedowns on each other. The wrestling was pretty even iirc. Phone Post 3.0
Iirc, 2nd fight was 2 to 1 takedowns gsp. Either way, kos was the top dog wrestler and a kid that didn't start wrestling 'til his mid 20's held his own. I was very surprised by that feat. Phone Post 3.0

mkou - Well SinCityHustler probably says GSP wouldn't make it in D1. Others will disagree. Phone Post 3.0

I'm not sure if you're mocking me or if you're praising my knowledge on the topic. I'm certainly not an expert on GSP, but I've probably seen enough, where we can try and make a guess at what the French Canadian might have produced, at the D1 college level.

mkou, for this exercise, I'm going to ask you chime in and correct or fill in where I may be inaccurate, or if I've omitted relevant information. Also note, I like to approach hypothetical, from a heavy psychological perspective. I like to look into the mind of the subject and then from there, navigate to where the journey may have taken them. Lets do this with Georges.

GSP was a garbage man, if memory serves correct. We also know he wasn't much at all physically, to speak of. I'm not aware of any sort of interest or tradition in academia, within the St Pierre household. That's very concerning, in terms of his ability to balance the wrestling demands, with the academic demands. This is D1 college, not exactly the Montreal sanitation training facility, for up and coming garbage men, who were bullied in HS.

We know St. Pierre was bullied in school, we know he became a karate enthusiast, and he's told us about possessing a very dark side. I like all 3 of these factors going forward, in terms of his wrestling development. They concern me in terms of in the classroom performance.

Georges has won many titles and accolades, in professional cage fighting, and he has developed a reputation for being a student of the game. Those are certainly factors to consider, but where one wants to really focus, would be on his losses. The losses so often tell more about a person, than the wins may ever provide insight. I also want to focus on his opponent selection. In a sport like folskstyle wrestling, the mental aspect, the will, the drive, the determination, is generally a major aspect of one's success or failure.

The Matt Hughes defeat doesn't bother me a whole lot. In fact, it pretty much solidifies, GSP just was not ready . He was probably the better fighter, but mentally, he was still an infant. The lightning quick tap, with less than 1 second remaining in the round, tells us this. A veteran survives.

The Matt Serra defeat is concerning. Anyone can get caught, rocked, and stopped. Those things happened to GSP but how he responded, is what is concerning. He tapped out to being punched. We saw his limit. It was a "get him off of me, I can't handle this" type revelation. And when he returned, he saw the "new GSP". One unwilling to ever have to deal with confronting his limits. He became George "safe" Pierre.

The refusal to even entertain a bout with Anderson, let alone go through with it, despite being all too happy to face

Sherk
Penn
Penn
Serra
Serra

Brings his heart into question. This really bothers me going forward. But none the less, in an era of PED abuse, in a sport rampant with cheating and abuse, St Pierre rose to the very top, and he did it largely on his superior conditioning, physicality, and technical superiority. It was said Georges would train 7 days per week, often time 3 sessions per day, and then he would seek out an additional workout. He would routinely out last multiple work out partners. He just did not get tired, he did not burn out, and he was not over trained. How was he able to perform at such a brutally demanding schedule, and then still appear fresh on fight night? Many say he was simply that special of an athlete.

Lets send Georges over to the University of Iowa Hawkeyes. They train like that (albeit for a fraction of the duration), and they have all the top coaching and facilities Georges would have thrived in.

Could Georges handle the classroom?
Could he handle being 1/10th of the attraction?
Could he handle the set backs?
Could he handle the setting?

Iowa City Iowa is not exactly a sprawling metropolis, with spectacular sky scrapers, a giant French community, extensive international flavor, and cage groupies lining up to snap photos with the areas, cage fight stars.

I like Georges St. Pierre's frame for the wrestling mats. He has good length and he has powerful explosiveness out of that frame. Georges has excellent proprioception. This goes a long way to becoming a good wrestler. He is a student of the game and he is dedicated to his craft. This will be upsetting to Georges nut swingers, but it has to be confronted. Georges almost certainly has been on the high level juice, his entire championship career. It is just silly to insist the garbage man surpassed the entire world, while the world was juiced, and Georges was on nothing more than protein powder and asthma inhalers.

A clean Georges is probably a 157 pounder, right smack in the middle of the toughest weight classes, within D1 college wrestling. Georges also has the Big10 to contend with, competing at Iowa. He has the Gable or Zalesky to answer to. He's got all sorts of bruisers around him and in that shark tank in Iowa Cit, they're nipping at him, trying to take bites and chunks, while they battle and compete. One begins to imagine the trash talk from St. Pierre, from behind the French accent.

c’est bête comme chou
c’est bientôt dit
c’est dans mes cordes
c’est du bidon
c’est du gateau
c’est l’enfance de l’art

And so on, and so forth. I may have turned out, just for the Pierre French trash talk.

Could Georges handle the culture clash? The academics? The in room rivalries? The intensity and competitiveness? And how would he have fared at Carver Hawkeye Arena?

We are beginning to develop of a profile for Georges St Pierre, the 19 ear old, Iowa super frosh, by way of Montreal's senior high, Polytechnic school for boys.

So can he wrestle?

I've got Georges career placements as including a national final and less than 25 defeats, as a member of the 100 win club. This of course, if he doesn't flunk out of school.

While I wouldn't expect Georges to make it through school, for this hypothetical, let's assume he makes it through and he's on the team all 4 years.

I've given him a very generous 25-6 average annual record. To reach these numbers, we have to assume the excellence at the pro MMA cage fighting level, retroactively transfer over and apply to his college wrestling career. It is extremely unlikely, but I want to give him every possible benefit of the doubt.