If he had put the time he spent training everything else strictly into wrestling there's no way he wouldn't have medaled at the Olympics. 
SinCityHustler -Not mocking, quite the opposite. You have a very unique style of posting and I've enjoyed your take on fighters wrestling ability and the stories you've shared on dfferent topics, even if there are some topics we disagree onmkou - Well SinCityHustler probably says GSP wouldn't make it in D1. Others will disagree.
I'm not sure if you're mocking me or if you're praising my knowledge on the topic. I'm certainly not an expert on GSP, but I've probably seen enough, where we can try and make a guess at what the French Canadian might have produced, at the D1 college level.
mkou, for this exercise, I'm going to ask you chime in and correct or fill in where I may be inaccurate, or if I've omitted relevant information. Also note, I like to approach hypothetical, from a heavy psychological perspective. I like to look into the mind of the subject and then from there, navigate to where the journey may have taken them. Lets do this with Georges.
GSP was a garbage man, if memory serves correct. We also know he wasn't much at all physically, to speak of. I'm not aware of any sort of interest or tradition in academia, within the St Pierre household. That's very concerning, in terms of his ability to balance the wrestling demands, with the academic demands. This is D1 college, not exactly the Montreal sanitation training facility, for up and coming garbage men, who were bullied in HS.
We know St. Pierre was bullied in school, we know he became a karate enthusiast, and he's told us about possessing a very dark side. I like all 3 of these factors going forward, in terms of his wrestling development. They concern me in terms of in the classroom performance.
Georges has won many titles and accolades, in professional cage fighting, and he has developed a reputation for being a student of the game. Those are certainly factors to consider, but where one wants to really focus, would be on his losses. The losses so often tell more about a person, than the wins may ever provide insight. I also want to focus on his opponent selection. In a sport like folskstyle wrestling, the mental aspect, the will, the drive, the determination, is generally a major aspect of one's success or failure.
The Matt Hughes defeat doesn't bother me a whole lot. In fact, it pretty much solidifies, GSP just was not ready . He was probably the better fighter, but mentally, he was still an infant. The lightning quick tap, with less than 1 second remaining in the round, tells us this. A veteran survives.
The Matt Serra defeat is concerning. Anyone can get caught, rocked, and stopped. Those things happened to GSP but how he responded, is what is concerning. He tapped out to being punched. We saw his limit. It was a "get him off of me, I can't handle this" type revelation. And when he returned, he saw the "new GSP". One unwilling to ever have to deal with confronting his limits. He became George "safe" Pierre.
The refusal to even entertain a bout with Anderson, let alone go through with it, despite being all too happy to face
Sherk
Penn
Penn
Serra
Serra
Brings his heart into question. This really bothers me going forward. But none the less, in an era of PED abuse, in a sport rampant with cheating and abuse, St Pierre rose to the very top, and he did it largely on his superior conditioning, physicality, and technical superiority. It was said Georges would train 7 days per week, often time 3 sessions per day, and then he would seek out an additional workout. He would routinely out last multiple work out partners. He just did not get tired, he did not burn out, and he was not over trained. How was he able to perform at such a brutally demanding schedule, and then still appear fresh on fight night? Many say he was simply that special of an athlete.
Lets send Georges over to the University of Iowa Hawkeyes. They train like that (albeit for a fraction of the duration), and they have all the top coaching and facilities Georges would have thrived in.
Could Georges handle the classroom?
Could he handle being 1/10th of the attraction?
Could he handle the set backs?
Could he handle the setting?
Iowa City Iowa is not exactly a sprawling metropolis, with spectacular sky scrapers, a giant French community, extensive international flavor, and cage groupies lining up to snap photos with the areas, cage fight stars.
I like Georges St. Pierre's frame for the wrestling mats. He has good length and he has powerful explosiveness out of that frame. Georges has excellent proprioception. This goes a long way to becoming a good wrestler. He is a student of the game and he is dedicated to his craft. This will be upsetting to Georges nut swingers, but it has to be confronted. Georges almost certainly has been on the high level juice, his entire championship career. It is just silly to insist the garbage man surpassed the entire world, while the world was juiced, and Georges was on nothing more than protein powder and asthma inhalers.
A clean Georges is probably a 157 pounder, right smack in the middle of the toughest weight classes, within D1 college wrestling. Georges also has the Big10 to contend with, competing at Iowa. He has the Gable or Zalesky to answer to. He's got all sorts of bruisers around him and in that shark tank in Iowa Cit, they're nipping at him, trying to take bites and chunks, while they battle and compete. One begins to imagine the trash talk from St. Pierre, from behind the French accent.
c’est bête comme chou
c’est bientôt dit
c’est dans mes cordes
c’est du bidon
c’est du gateau
c’est l’enfance de l’art
And so on, and so forth. I may have turned out, just for the Pierre French trash talk.
Could Georges handle the culture clash? The academics? The in room rivalries? The intensity and competitiveness? And how would he have fared at Carver Hawkeye Arena?
We are beginning to develop of a profile for Georges St Pierre, the 19 ear old, Iowa super frosh, by way of Montreal's senior high, Polytechnic school for boys.
So can he wrestle?
I've got Georges career placements as including a national final and less than 25 defeats, as a member of the 100 win club. This of course, if he doesn't flunk out of school.
VU.
Fight4Food - If u have a motivation passion its what it needs not some genetics or skills or other crap, u can be stronger in first years but after two years what kid with passion will maul u to the ground
Genetics are a pretty damn big deal. It's why some fighters need to take steroids to compete with other fighters in their weight class who don't take steroids. Naturally, the playing field is anything but level, even when those fighting are the 'same weight'.
Some people are simply born with physical/mental genetic advantages. It is a fact. You have a genetic advantage over someone who has Down Syndrome.
It's why Henry Cejudo will never beat up Brock Lesnar. All the passion and effort in the world will not make an ounce of difference if we were in a lawless world and Henry needed to defeat Brock (without weapons) to survive.
Brock could perform no physical activity for 365 days while Cejudo trains his ass off, motivated more than ever before as his life depends on it. Won't mean a thing, he will have his face pounded in. The kid with passion is going to lose every time in this scenario. Only a rule that prevents Henry from ever having to fight the man with the superior genetics can save him.
Genetics have guaranteed he will never defeat Brock. As they have guaranteed you and I will never defeat him either.
Genetics dictate what you are capable of becoming. If your genetic makeup results in you only growing to be 5'4, then you're only ever going to be 5'4. It's why not just anyone can work out, take steroids, and then look and perform like Brock Lesnar or those insane body builder types. They had good genetics to begin with that when coupled with steroids become almost non-human.
How about today? How does George St. Pierre fair, should he show up to the midlands tournament, this coming season? George St Pierre, enters the main draw at 174 pounds, in folk style wrestling.
For this discussion, Georges shows up with his entire team of doctors, scientists, chemists, wrestlers, coaches, strength and conditioning trainers, and even Victor Conte, himself, sporting a Biogenesis rashguard. They're in the gsp section and are greeted to a chorus of boos.
How does George perform at the tournament?
With a favorable draw, not facing anyone ranked until the round of 16, I could see Georges winning a Couple bouts. But then let's say he gets a #15 ranked type kid, out of somewhere like South Dakota state, and who's a senior, leg man, top position specialist. How does that bout go?
Fight4Food -Then you will be incorrect for all-time, echoing in eternity.DarkPlace Daz -WontFight4Food - Hendrix*Try again...
wiggum -Yeah we don't have many Olympic Champions. That said, we do have a couple guys who have made it to the Olympics... and GSP had been training with the Olympic team since way before he got to the UFC.crazydave -
I think anything GSP did for his entire life he would win a gold medal in.
Canada isn't known for producing great Olympic wrestlers, so that would be a hinderance. But GSP is a world champion, through and through. I agree with this post: it's hard to imagine him participating in a sport that isn't size-determined (i.e. basketball) and not being one of the greats.
SinCityHustler -mkou - Well SinCityHustler probably says GSP wouldn't make it in D1. Others will disagree.
I'm not sure if you're mocking me or if you're praising my knowledge on the topic. I'm certainly not an expert on GSP, but I've probably seen enough, where we can try and make a guess at what the French Canadian might have produced, at the D1 college level.
mkou, for this exercise, I'm going to ask you chime in and correct or fill in where I may be inaccurate, or if I've omitted relevant information. Also note, I like to approach hypothetical, from a heavy psychological perspective. I like to look into the mind of the subject and then from there, navigate to where the journey may have taken them. Lets do this with Georges.
GSP was a garbage man, if memory serves correct. We also know he wasn't much at all physically, to speak of. I'm not aware of any sort of interest or tradition in academia, within the St Pierre household. That's very concerning, in terms of his ability to balance the wrestling demands, with the academic demands. This is D1 college, not exactly the Montreal sanitation training facility, for up and coming garbage men, who were bullied in HS.
We know St. Pierre was bullied in school, we know he became a karate enthusiast, and he's told us about possessing a very dark side. I like all 3 of these factors going forward, in terms of his wrestling development. They concern me in terms of in the classroom performance.
Georges has won many titles and accolades, in professional cage fighting, and he has developed a reputation for being a student of the game. Those are certainly factors to consider, but where one wants to really focus, would be on his losses. The losses so often tell more about a person, than the wins may ever provide insight. I also want to focus on his opponent selection. In a sport like folskstyle wrestling, the mental aspect, the will, the drive, the determination, is generally a major aspect of one's success or failure.
The Matt Hughes defeat doesn't bother me a whole lot. In fact, it pretty much solidifies, GSP just was not ready . He was probably the better fighter, but mentally, he was still an infant. The lightning quick tap, with less than 1 second remaining in the round, tells us this. A veteran survives.
The Matt Serra defeat is concerning. Anyone can get caught, rocked, and stopped. Those things happened to GSP but how he responded, is what is concerning. He tapped out to being punched. We saw his limit. It was a "get him off of me, I can't handle this" type revelation. And when he returned, he saw the "new GSP". One unwilling to ever have to deal with confronting his limits. He became George "safe" Pierre.
The refusal to even entertain a bout with Anderson, let alone go through with it, despite being all too happy to face
Sherk
Penn
Penn
Serra
Serra
Brings his heart into question. This really bothers me going forward. But none the less, in an era of PED abuse, in a sport rampant with cheating and abuse, St Pierre rose to the very top, and he did it largely on his superior conditioning, physicality, and technical superiority. It was said Georges would train 7 days per week, often time 3 sessions per day, and then he would seek out an additional workout. He would routinely out last multiple work out partners. He just did not get tired, he did not burn out, and he was not over trained. How was he able to perform at such a brutally demanding schedule, and then still appear fresh on fight night? Many say he was simply that special of an athlete.
Lets send Georges over to the University of Iowa Hawkeyes. They train like that (albeit for a fraction of the duration), and they have all the top coaching and facilities Georges would have thrived in.
Could Georges handle the classroom?
Could he handle being 1/10th of the attraction?
Could he handle the set backs?
Could he handle the setting?
Iowa City Iowa is not exactly a sprawling metropolis, with spectacular sky scrapers, a giant French community, extensive international flavor, and cage groupies lining up to snap photos with the areas, cage fight stars.
I like Georges St. Pierre's frame for the wrestling mats. He has good length and he has powerful explosiveness out of that frame. Georges has excellent proprioception. This goes a long way to becoming a good wrestler. He is a student of the game and he is dedicated to his craft. This will be upsetting to Georges nut swingers, but it has to be confronted. Georges almost certainly has been on the high level juice, his entire championship career. It is just silly to insist the garbage man surpassed the entire world, while the world was juiced, and Georges was on nothing more than protein powder and asthma inhalers.
A clean Georges is probably a 157 pounder, right smack in the middle of the toughest weight classes, within D1 college wrestling. Georges also has the Big10 to contend with, competing at Iowa. He has the Gable or Zalesky to answer to. He's got all sorts of bruisers around him and in that shark tank in Iowa Cit, they're nipping at him, trying to take bites and chunks, while they battle and compete. One begins to imagine the trash talk from St. Pierre, from behind the French accent.
c’est bête comme chou
c’est bientôt dit
c’est dans mes cordes
c’est du bidon
c’est du gateau
c’est l’enfance de l’art
And so on, and so forth. I may have turned out, just for the Pierre French trash talk.
Could Georges handle the culture clash? The academics? The in room rivalries? The intensity and competitiveness? And how would he have fared at Carver Hawkeye Arena?
We are beginning to develop of a profile for Georges St Pierre, the 19 ear old, Iowa super frosh, by way of Montreal's senior high, Polytechnic school for boys.
So can he wrestle?
I've got Georges career placements as including a national final and less than 25 defeats, as a member of the 100 win club. This of course, if he doesn't flunk out of school.
Your post is riddled with silliness. You're worried about his intelligence because he once held a job as a garbage man? Was that a temporary job that he has as a young man or as high as he could rise on the professional ladder? You compare his reluctance to face Anderson with his lack of reluctance at facing Serra, Sherk, and Penn? They chose to be in his weight class and were the number one contenders -- what is he supposed to do, refuse to fight them on the grounds that they could conceivably cut to a lower class? It's not like he called them out. Was every champion on the juice? Was BJ Penn on the juice? Clearly he must have been as well, by your logic, to rise to the top over the PED using competition.
^^^^Dumb dumb,
you've had my points sail over your head, harmlessly landing in the intelligence zone, while you struggle to grasp what was conveyed, and remain in ignorance.
Here you go, broken down for the layman
"You're worried about his intelligence because he once held a job as a garbage man?"
I'm not at all concerned with his intelligence. He's clearly a very bright guy. But if you've ever been even associated with a big time college athletics program (particularly wrestling at the highest levels) you know it's not only about intelligence. It's mostly about the mental grind, the culture clash, the will and drive to excel in the class room, the exposure to academia at D1 levels, and his ability to balance it all, while growing homesick, while getting beat down, while cutting weight, while experiencing failures and particularly as a frosh, while wondering if this is even worthwhile or what he really wants to do.
No, I'm not at all concerned with his intelligence, what concerns me is if he strives to become, and his ambition was to collect garbage with the local city sanitation dept., of has to strongly question his commitment to education. Remember, the University of Iowa, in this hypothetical, is putting resources into him, he is representing the team, and they are counting on him to anchor down one f the weight classes. It's not like they're hiring him at the local convenience story, to wash bathrooms, mop floors, and take out the trash.
"You compare his reluctance to face Anderson with his lack of reluctance at facing Serra, Sherk, and Penn"
I'm not questioning why a champion has to accept championship bouts against contenders in his weight division, I have made the observation, Georges was happy to fight those guys, whether by his choice or Zuffa, yet he avoided like the plague, a bout with Anderson. His reasoning? He had to discuss it with family, friends, team, coaches, management, sponsors, etc. In other words, a terrible fear of getting beat down against the bigger guy, but no issues with handing out beat downs, to smaller guys.
This may sail over your head, but it doesn't escape my attention. A classic front runner. When the deck is in his favor, he's all about it, but that changes, and he has to talk it over with everyone in his phone book. Has he had that conversation with those people yet? I don't hear him calling out Anderson.
This brings into question his heart. In college, he would have been beaten down many times. We need to factor his heart, if we're going to predict positive results for him. By the way, did you read my predictions? You could not ask for me giving him more of a benefit of the doubt.
" Was every champion on the juice? Was BJ Penn on the juice?"
Sweetheart, BJ Penn is currently suspended by USADA for his recent violation. At the very least, pick someone else who is not suspended, if you're going to make that point.
Pick Anderson. Oh no, he got popped too
Pick Sherk. Oh no, he got popped too.
So 3/4 guys in the conversation got popped, but you're wondering about guys being in the gear.
Go up another weight class and pick Jones. Oh no, he's been popped more times than a boner.
Are you actually arguing about PED's? Your silliness, is eclipsed only by your ignorance.
Your clumsiness with words is matched only by the ineptness of your logic. Trying to make one's way through that rat's nest of sloppy prose in an attempt to find anything resembling an actual argument worth considering is an exercise in futility. God knows what your grasping for with your garbage man argument, but I'm assuming even you don't take that seriously.
What do you mean he was happy to fight those guys? Happier than fighting any of his other opponents? What leads you to make that claim? If anything, the fact that he came back to soundly defeat an opponent who tko'd him and an opponent who fought him to close decision, should help to dispel rather than reinforce the front runner claim.
Penn was not suspended for being on the juice, sweetheart, so it doesn't affect that point the least bit. I don't doubt that many high level fighters are on PEDs, it was your clunkly argument for it that I was examining.
^^^^Princess,
the IV is used to mask the use of PED's. He failed. Had he run out of the room when they showed up, that would go down as a failure as well. You don't assume it was time for his afternoon jog, it's a fail because he's hiding drug use.
You think estrogen blockers is a PED? Of course not, sunshine. It's banned because we know you use it for PCT and so your tits don't start lactating when you exert your chest muscles.
Use your brain, sweetness. You actually believe the dick pill story? The I didn't know story? The super kangaroos story? This is big time professional cage fights at the highest levels with lots of money up for grabs.
Penn fails, despite having received an exemption for testing requirements, and the best you can do is, "Penn was not suspended for being on the juice"? You're being legalistic, now. He is suspended because he violated the doping rules and guidelines. The excuse he provided, was he didn't know. You fell for that?
Do we agree or not, he was happy to fight those guys?
DO we agree or not, he would not (not even for the biggest pay day of his career) accept Anderson's challenge?
Or are you actually arguing he wasn't happy to fight the guys I listed?
Again, you are missing my point. I AGREE that many or even most top fighters are on PEDs. No need to keep bringing up well known examples of those who have tested positive and crowing like you are making some devastating point -- you are preaching to the choir. It is your logic that if top level guys are using, every champ must be using that is a bit weak. GSP could indeed have been using; it is certainly possible. Was he using when he beat Hendricks? Many have pointed to that fight as an example of a non juiced GSP getting muscled around by a juiced up Hendricks. He did volunteer for VADA testing for that fight, while Hendricks refused.
What do you mean happy to fight those guys? He didn't call them out. I imagine he felt he would win, as he did with all his opponents. The BJ Penn fight was expected to be tough. I see no evidence for exceptional giddiness on his part. Show me how he acted differently for those opponents than for the pure welterweights he fought. Simply repeating your point over and over doesn't do a whole lot for me.
I don't think he wanted to fight Anderson.
misterw - Again, you are missing my point. I AGREE that many or even most top fighters are on PEDs. No need to keep bringing up well known examples of those who have tested positive and crowing like you are making some devastating point -- you are preaching to the choir. It is your logic that if top level guys are using, every champ must be using that is a bit weak. GSP could indeed have been using; it is certainly possible. Was he using when he beat Hendricks? Many have pointed to that fight as an example of a non juiced GSP getting muscled around by a juiced up Hendricks. He did volunteer for VADA testing for that fight, while Hendricks refused.
What do you mean happy to fight those guys? He didn't call them out. I imagine he felt he would win, as he did with all his opponents. The BJ Penn fight was expected to be tough. I see no evidence for exceptional giddiness on his part. Show me how he acted differently for those opponents than for the pure welterweights he fought. Simply repeating your point over and over doesn't do a whole lot for me.
I don't think he wanted to fight Anderson.
Thank you for your points. Just a couple of points of clarification.
I believe GSP was happy with all the fights he accepted. The point that concerns me here, is the fight he did not accept. We agree on that point, and that being Anderson.
I believe he as clean for the Hendricks fight.
Are you willing to make a prediction on how GSP may have fared in college as a 19 year old frosh, arriving in Iowa City, and needing to perform both in the classroom and on the mat? Or perhaps a current day GSP showing up to Evanston IL, in December, and throwing his hat into the mix, at the Midlands tournament?
The points I made above, are my effort at identifying strong and weak areas in GSP's mental makeup. There's no saying I am correct, and in fact, the college career cannot happen, it's only my guess. I am interested in your prognostication, either retroactive, or how a future Midlands run might look. I strongly hold the Anderson duck against GSP. He never minded fighting smaller guys.
GSP was one of the best at managing his career. A fight with Anderson was risky. There are fighters who will fight anyone at any time and while fans appreciate that (when they win) it often ends up hurting their career. Look at Penn getting mauled by Diaz and Rory McDonald. Or not being strategic enough to realize that a comeback fight against Edgar was ill advised. Losing in MMA is not like losing in tennis or even like losing in wrestling, and can have severe ramifications for your career and health (Cyborg?).
If he was clean for the Hendricks fight, and Hendricks was not (not proven, but his refusal of VADA, his subsequent body fluctuations, and his poor showings since), then that shows that a clean GSP was able to defeat one of his toughest challengers while he was PED enhanced. How does that fit in with your argument that any champion MUST be using PEDs in order to defeat his PED enhanced competition?
I don't see any reason why GSP would have trouble balancing classroom and athletics, not even sure why that seems to be a sticking point. He seems like a smart guy and hard working to the point of being obsessive compulsive. I've known plenty of wrestlers who did just fine with that and they were far from rocket scientists.
misterw - GSP was one of the best at managing his career. A fight with Anderson was risky. There are fighters who will fight anyone at any time and while fans appreciate that (when they win) it often ends up hurting their career. Look at Penn getting mauled by Diaz and Rory McDonald. Or not being strategic enough to realize that a comeback fight against Edgar was ill advised. Losing in MMA is not like losing in tennis or even like losing in wrestling, and can have severe ramifications for your career and health (Cyborg?).
If he was clean for the Hendricks fight, and Hendricks was not (not proven, but his refusal of VADA, his subsequent body fluctuations, and his poor showings since), then that shows that a clean GSP was able to defeat one of his toughest challengers while he was PED enhanced. How does that fit in with your argument that any champion MUST be using PEDs in order to defeat his PED enhanced competition?
I don't see any reason why GSP would have trouble balancing classroom and athletics, not even sure why that seems to be a sticking point. He seems like a smart guy and hard working to the point of being obsessive compulsive. I've known plenty of wrestlers who did just fine with that and they were far from rocket scientists.
I think he was clean, that doesn't mean he was. Lets not forget, his own guys did the testing. I saw enough of a drop off in performance, where I want to believe that was a clean GSP. I also saw him get the worse of the fight, no matter how the judges scored it.
Was Hendricks clean? Tough to say. He's gotten heavier since USADA. Hardly a vote for him getting off the juice. He was hospitalized cutting weight and he had other very difficult weight cuts. I hardly attribute his weight gain, very difficult cuts, and subsequent poor performances to USADA.
My point, I would hardly suspect Hendricks was on PED's, based on any of the above. If anything, the suspicion arises by how he tossed St Pierre around, and the fact he reached the very top of the division.
Are all of these guys dirty, particularly at the very top end? Almost certainly. Are any of them clean? I thought we saw a clean GSP, but how is anyone to know? I'd say a clean world champion is probably laughable.
I listed all the variables which may have caused GSP to lose his way and not make it in school. None of those were a lack of intelligence. In fact, I think he's probably a pretty sharp guy, and I've noted that above. I've seen many, many wrestlers not be able to make the grind. That's a common concern when evaluating a guy to potentially be on one's roster.
I just came across this on another site, and I thought it was funny
https://i.redd.it/gtc2cqkj5ddx.jpg
What do you mean his own guys? And was it a drop off in performance or was it simply his toughest opponent? That was Hendricks at his peak -- huge, great wrestling, devastating power. While he had some difficult cuts afterwards, he actually weighs considerably less now. He's come in much lighter for recent fights. So it does look quite suspicious. Come on -- you think everyone else is using PEDS, except the guy who refused testing, had massive power and strength and size, all of which has diminished after USADA? Give me a break. If you don't find Hendricks suspicious, then you're trying to bend your observations to fit your hypothesis, instead of the other way around.
misterw - What do you mean his own guys? And was it a drop off in performance or was it simply his toughest opponent? That was Hendricks at his peak -- huge, great wrestling, devastating power. While he had some difficult cuts afterwards, he actually weighs considerably less now. He's come in much lighter for recent fights. So it does look quite suspicious. Come on -- you think everyone else is using PEDS, except the guy who refused testing, had massive power and strength and size, all of which has diminished after USADA? Give me a break. If you don't find Hendricks suspicious, then you're trying to bend your observations to fit your hypothesis, instead of the other way around.
GSP used the guys who were sponsoring him (his guys). He wanted Hendricks to use the guys who GSP would have been paying for (again GSP's guys). Hendricks didn't refuse extra testing, he suggested WADA. Or VADA, which ever GSP wasn't in bed with. GSP wasn't interested in that, he wanted it slanted in his favor. Hendricks underwent testing, lets not pretend like it was either GSP's guys, or none at all. Hendricks, like GSP, passed just fine (assuming all was on the up and up with the testing).
Hendricks was not the best opponent GSP faced, but yes, given GSP's drop off, it became his toughest opponent.
And no, I don't think everyone is using PED's except Hendricks, here's where I cover Hendricks and PED's
"Are all of these guys dirty, particularly at the very top end? Almost certainly. Are any of them clean? I thought we saw a clean GSP, but how is anyone to know? I'd say a clean world champion is probably laughable"
Hendricks was at the top end and Hendricks was a world champion. Read it again, until it makes sense.
In the interest of not allowing you to turns this into a GSP is/is not on PED's but Johnny for sure is, debate, I'm going to return to the OP. I'd ask you at least tie in something to do with the OP as well. What you're doing is hijacking the thread.
misterw, let me ask you, how does GSP perform in college, assuming he was good enough by age 19 to make a team, and that he can balance all the challenges one typically has, when they go away and compete in a sport, at the division 1 college level?
What's your take on all of this, and please feel free to support your views with which ever means you're capable of .
Thanks in advance.
Clarence Parents -wiggum -It doesn't matter where you're born or where you end up living.crazydave -
I think anything GSP did for his entire life he would win a gold medal in.
Canada isn't known for producing great Olympic wrestlers, so that would be a hinderance. But GSP is a world champion, through and through. I agree with this post: it's hard to imagine him participating in a sport that isn't size-determined (i.e. basketball) and not being one of the greats.
It's all about genetics, intelligence, work ethic, luck, passion, motivation, and timing.
People holding the genetics that can combine to create an above average person can fuck and have a baby anywhere in the world. A person born in the USA can become the greatest lacrosse player.
"It doesn't matter where you're born or where you end up living."
This is not in line with reality. There is a reason why certain countries consistently dominate the international system - they have the best development programs and coaches.
If you are right, then you're just as likely to become a great basketball player growing up in Iran as growing up in the US. It's completely out of touch.
If it helps all of these arguments, GSP did actually train with Gia Sissaouri, an Olympic silver medalist, and other members of the Canadian Olympic team (p.s. wrestlers have to qualify for the olympics - not just qualify for the team). "Back in the day" reports were that while GSP was not an Olympic level wrestler, he was certainly not embarrassed and could hold his own. Another important fact to remember about high level international wrestling, often times, the 8th place finisher may lose to the gold medalist 3-2, yet, 10 times out of 10, the person winning the gold would beat the 8th place person...Moral of the story: wrestling is hard and there is very little margin for error when achieving greatness. Asking someone who doesn't do it full time, and who hasn't done it full time to be "great" is pretty much impossible. That's not a knock on GSP's wrestling, maybe more of a compliment to what he was able to accomplish given his late start.
SinCityHustler - How about today? How does George St. Pierre fair, should he show up to the midlands tournament, this coming season? George St Pierre, enters the main draw at 174 pounds, in folk style wrestling.
For this discussion, Georges shows up with his entire team of doctors, scientists, chemists, wrestlers, coaches, strength and conditioning trainers, and even Victor Conte, himself, sporting a Biogenesis rashguard. They're in the gsp section and are greeted to a chorus of boos.
How does George perform at the tournament?
With a favorable draw, not facing anyone ranked until the round of 16, I could see Georges winning a Couple bouts. But then let's say he gets a #15 ranked type kid, out of somewhere like South Dakota state, and who's a senior, leg man, top position specialist. How does that bout go?
I could definitely see GSP winning some matches at Midlands today. Especially if he racks up points early via taking the guy down and cutting him. But you're right - he would struggle tremendously against a top flight cradle or legs guy.
wiggum -SinCityHustler - How about today? How does George St. Pierre fair, should he show up to the midlands tournament, this coming season? George St Pierre, enters the main draw at 174 pounds, in folk style wrestling.
For this discussion, Georges shows up with his entire team of doctors, scientists, chemists, wrestlers, coaches, strength and conditioning trainers, and even Victor Conte, himself, sporting a Biogenesis rashguard. They're in the gsp section and are greeted to a chorus of boos.
How does George perform at the tournament?
With a favorable draw, not facing anyone ranked until the round of 16, I could see Georges winning a Couple bouts. But then let's say he gets a #15 ranked type kid, out of somewhere like South Dakota state, and who's a senior, leg man, top position specialist. How does that bout go?
I could definitely see GSP winning some matches at Midlands today. Especially if he racks up points early via taking the guy down and cutting him. But you're right - he would struggle tremendously against a top flight cradle or legs guy.
I like it.
For the sake of discussion, lets say Georges wins that bout 8-7 in a thrilling, last second, take down. The crowd who had been anticipating a GSP loss and was with the NDSU wrestler the whole way, erupts into a loud and sustained booooo. It's the first time St. Pierre has been booo'd and he does not like it! He's very noticeably uncomfortable, as he makes his way to the tunnel, and off the arena floor. He's got Iowa next, and that's senior, All American, Alex Meyer.
Fireworks are figured in that bout, and to boot, Georges is now backed into a corner, and feeling the wrath of the wrestling community. This figures to be a VERY tough match up for GSP.
Here we go!