Half-nelson and Crotch pin comb.?

In many of the older Catch as Catch Can and Folkstyle Wrestling books, the "half-nelson and crotch" pinning combination is THE fundamental pin that is illustrated. Nowadays, I hardly see anybody using the "crotch hold" and half-nelson together as a pinning combination. Is this the case, or is it just my imagination?

If I am correct in my assessment that the "crotch hold" is not used that much anymore in concert with the "crotch hold", then what would you guys say accounts for this?

Have people's experiences taught them that the half-nelson works just fine without the "crotch hold"? Or is it due to something else?

Regardless, if some of the more knowledgeable wrestlers on this forum could shed light on the above, I would appreciate it.

Thanks in advance.

Man, no one knows anything about this one?

I would venture to say rules changes lead to this falling to the wayside. Keep in mind, changes in rules (and the competitive wrestling surface) have resulted in changes in techniques.

The standard "head-outside" single you see in amateur wrestling (with knee hitting the mat) comes to mind as an example of a technique that was born from said changes. With neck-cranks allowed and a hard surface area, you won't see a lot of those...


which particular rules do you think accounted for the half-nelson and crotch pinning combination for this move falling to the wayside? In books that were written even in the late 70's, I still see it demonstrated, so I am really clueless about as to what might have accounted for it falling to the wayside.

Furthermore, by "standard 'head-outside' single" do you mean the "high crotch"?

The only thing I know, is way to many mommas have gotten envolved in wrestling!Damn mom,stay off the mat!

Yep. I wasn't sure that those people who are not familiar with wrestling would know the difference between a HC and a single (I picked this description up from Glenn a while ago and seems to stick in people's heads better *shrugs).

As for the particular rule change, I don't know. I was merely speculating. Maybe someone more familiar with the evolution of modern folkstyle can tell you more than I can...

Ok. Thanks Jakes.

Whoever that person may be about whose existence Jake has speculated (i.e. someone more knowledgeable than Jake about the evolution of modern folkstyle), please show up and chime in!