gertie van hofflagen
Mad Xyientist - Frank Shamrock. Murilo Bustamante. Mark Kerr. B.J. Penn. Josh Barnett. Mark Coleman. Royce Gracie. Guy Mezger. Tito Ortiz. Randy Couture. Jens Pulver. Andrei Arlovski. Yves Edwards
Other than them, almost nobody.
Shamrock/'99, Bustamante/'02, Kerr/'97, Barnett/'02, Coleman/'99, Gracie/'95, Mezger/'99. Those guys left because there was more money to be made and better fights to be had in Japan. The UFC was a weak organization during those years, especially between '97-04, close to bankcruptcy. You could even use that same argument for Penn. This does not answer my question. Randy doesn't count because he didn't fight anywhere else. Tito hasn't officially left and he is 0-2-1 in his last 3 fights. Yves Edwards was never a contender in the UFC. Arlovski was part of the weakest HW division in the world. Is the question really that complicated? I'm just trying to figure out if anyone with any kind of bargaining power has left the UFC while it has been the PREMIERE MMA promotion, which between the years of 98-04, it was not.
^^ That isn't what you asked.
B_Goetz - ^^ That isn't what you asked.
"I'm talking about since the UFC has become the hottest MMA promo in the US. "
Yessir, i believe i did.
"Arlovski was part of the weakest HW division in the world. Is the question really that complicated?"
Apparently the question IS that complicated, because an exception for "weakest HW division in the world" was not in the question, yet when you're given a valid answer, you decide it doesn't count for some reason you make up.
This is like playing "Uno" with my 5 year old nephew.
what MMA promotion has EVER been bigger, hotter, better, more followed than the UFC? please don't say pride because even though pride was bigger in japan for maybe two years or so
the ufc has always been bigger than pride (not saying better or even stronger which could be argued)
Mad Xyientist - Frank Shamrock. Murilo Bustamante. Mark Kerr. B.J. Penn. Josh Barnett. Mark Coleman. Royce Gracie. Guy Mezger. Tito Ortiz. Randy Couture. Jens Pulver. Andrei Arlovski. Yves Edwards
Other than them, almost nobody.
That's a terrible, terrible list. Do you even know what question he was asking?
Which guys left at their PEAK? Do you really think Tito is reaching his career peak right now? Randy left after getting the slobber beat out of him by Chuck. Coleman would go on to win the PRIDE GP, so he wasn't peaking when he left.
DannyOcean -Mad Xyientist - Frank Shamrock. Murilo Bustamante. Mark Kerr. B.J. Penn. Josh Barnett. Mark Coleman. Royce Gracie. Guy Mezger. Tito Ortiz. Randy Couture. Jens Pulver. Andrei Arlovski. Yves Edwards
Other than them, almost nobody.
That's a terrible, terrible list. Do you even know what question he was asking?
Which guys left at their PEAK? Do you really think Tito is reaching his career peak right now? Randy left after getting the slobber beat out of him by Chuck. Coleman would go on to win the PRIDE GP, so he wasn't peaking when he left.
your coleman example is the exact answer to the question there was no skill or strength difference with Coleman when he left the UFC to winning the GP so leaving when he did he was at the top of his game and left the UFC
Mad Xyientist - "Arlovski was part of the weakest HW division in the world. Is the question really that complicated?"
Apparently the question IS that complicated, because an exception for "weakest HW division in the world" was not in the question, yet when you're given a valid answer, you decide it doesn't count for some reason you make up.
This is like playing "Uno" with my 5 year old nephew.
Picking one part of my statement to make yourself sound right is beyond stupid. If you want to get into an Arlovski debate, he was no longer a marquee player in the HW division. He may be young, and talented, but he was no longer a top contender in the UFC HW with Couture, Nog, Mir, Lesnar, and Sylvia while he was still there. He had no bargaining power what so ever when he left.
Rocky Marciano
Pretjah - what MMA promotion has EVER been bigger, hotter, better, more followed than the UFC? please don't say pride because even though pride was bigger in japan for maybe two years or so
the ufc has always been bigger than pride (not saying better or even stronger which could be argued)
but PRIDE at the time had way more money to spend on its fighters, and i totally believe they had a better product. We seem to be forgetting that the UFC almost went under until TUF came out, so most of the top talent in the world was in other organizations.
CaptainPlanet -Mad Xyientist - "Arlovski was part of the weakest HW division in the world. Is the question really that complicated?"
Apparently the question IS that complicated, because an exception for "weakest HW division in the world" was not in the question, yet when you're given a valid answer, you decide it doesn't count for some reason you make up.
This is like playing "Uno" with my 5 year old nephew.
Picking one part of my statement to make yourself sound right is beyond stupid. If you want to get into an Arlovski debate, he was no longer a marquee player in the HW division. He may be young, and talented, but he was no longer a top contender in the UFC HW with Couture, Nog, Mir, Lesnar, and Sylvia while he was still there. He had no bargaining power what so ever when he left.
LOL @ This. This thread is far too stupid for my continued participation.
don't forget about kevin jordan either
CaptainPlanet -B_Goetz - ^^ That isn't what you asked.
"I'm talking about since the UFC has become the hottest MMA promo in the US. "
Yessir, i believe i did.
For as long as it's existed the UFC has always been the hottest MMA promo in the US.
CaptainPlanet -this is great you make an arguement against the UFC by claiming they almost went under( no one except a few people know if this is true or not) any way you use that as an arguement aginst the UFC the whole while making the arguement that PRIDE was BETTER AND THEY DID GO UNDER!!!Pretjah - what MMA promotion has EVER been bigger, hotter, better, more followed than the UFC? please don't say pride because even though pride was bigger in japan for maybe two years or so
the ufc has always been bigger than pride (not saying better or even stronger which could be argued)
but PRIDE at the time had way more money to spend on its fighters, and i totally believe they had a better product. We seem to be forgetting that the UFC almost went under until TUF came out, so most of the top talent in the world was in other organizations.
the UFC has ALWAYS been the premiere MMA organization...did pride make a small run? yes did they suceed not even close...and as TITO would say the proof is in the putting
CaptainPlanet -Mad Xyientist - "Arlovski was part of the weakest HW division in the world. Is the question really that complicated?"
Apparently the question IS that complicated, because an exception for "weakest HW division in the world" was not in the question, yet when you're given a valid answer, you decide it doesn't count for some reason you make up.
This is like playing "Uno" with my 5 year old nephew.
Picking one part of my statement to make yourself sound right is beyond stupid. If you want to get into an Arlovski debate, he was no longer a marquee player in the HW division. He may be young, and talented, but he was no longer a top contender in the UFC HW with Couture, Nog, Mir, Lesnar, and Sylvia while he was still there. He had no bargaining power what so ever when he left.
That's not true. Dana White was expressing remorse and trying to re-establish negotiations at the time AA left the UFC.
AA was less of a draw than Couture and Lesnar, but more of a draw than Nog, Mir and Sylvia.
B_Goetz -touche....CaptainPlanet -B_Goetz - ^^ That isn't what you asked.
"I'm talking about since the UFC has become the hottest MMA promo in the US. "
Yessir, i believe i did.
For as long as it's existed the UFC has always been the hottest MMA promo in the US.
Pretjah -What proof is that? For the longest time, PRIDE had the better fighters, paid their fighters more money, and had an all around better product. The only division the UFC had that was stronger was the WW division, and even then you could make an argument for PRIDE.CaptainPlanet -this is great you make an arguement against the UFC by claiming they almost went under( no one except a few people know if this is true or not) any way you use that as an arguement aginst the UFC the whole while making the arguement that PRIDE was BETTER AND THEY DID GO UNDER!!!Pretjah - what MMA promotion has EVER been bigger, hotter, better, more followed than the UFC? please don't say pride because even though pride was bigger in japan for maybe two years or so
the ufc has always been bigger than pride (not saying better or even stronger which could be argued)
but PRIDE at the time had way more money to spend on its fighters, and i totally believe they had a better product. We seem to be forgetting that the UFC almost went under until TUF came out, so most of the top talent in the world was in other organizations.
the UFC has ALWAYS been the premiere MMA organization...did pride make a small run? yes did they suceed not even close...and as TITO would say the proof is in the putting
B_Goetz -Well then it doesn't count because he has a beard! CaptainPlanet was clearly talking about non-bearded fighters only!CaptainPlanet -Mad Xyientist - "Arlovski was part of the weakest HW division in the world. Is the question really that complicated?"
Apparently the question IS that complicated, because an exception for "weakest HW division in the world" was not in the question, yet when you're given a valid answer, you decide it doesn't count for some reason you make up.
This is like playing "Uno" with my 5 year old nephew.
Picking one part of my statement to make yourself sound right is beyond stupid. If you want to get into an Arlovski debate, he was no longer a marquee player in the HW division. He may be young, and talented, but he was no longer a top contender in the UFC HW with Couture, Nog, Mir, Lesnar, and Sylvia while he was still there. He had no bargaining power what so ever when he left.
That's not true. Dana White was expressing remorse and trying to re-establish negotiations at the time AA left the UFC.
CaptainPlanet -wow i dont want to make this a pride vs ufc thread but you mean the better pride fighters that have come into the UFC and completely dominated like silvia,herring, cro cop, rua?Pretjah -What proof is that? For the longest time, PRIDE had the better fighters, paid their fighters more money, and had an all around better product. The only division the UFC had that was stronger was the WW division, and even then you could make an argument for PRIDE.CaptainPlanet -this is great you make an arguement against the UFC by claiming they almost went under( no one except a few people know if this is true or not) any way you use that as an arguement aginst the UFC the whole while making the arguement that PRIDE was BETTER AND THEY DID GO UNDER!!!Pretjah - what MMA promotion has EVER been bigger, hotter, better, more followed than the UFC? please don't say pride because even though pride was bigger in japan for maybe two years or so
the ufc has always been bigger than pride (not saying better or even stronger which could be argued)
but PRIDE at the time had way more money to spend on its fighters, and i totally believe they had a better product. We seem to be forgetting that the UFC almost went under until TUF came out, so most of the top talent in the world was in other organizations.
the UFC has ALWAYS been the premiere MMA organization...did pride make a small run? yes did they suceed not even close...and as TITO would say the proof is in the putting
will give you NOG but the NOG Ricco fight IN PRIDE showed that there wasn't that much of a difference in the organizations skill wise.
lets even give fedor for arguements sack...but lets be honest...if fedor was that dominate all he had to do was sign to fight Randy and zuffa would have made him lots of money if he won. but he wouldn't sign with the UFC.
the ufc light heavies have shown to be stronger and other there is no comparison with the ufc at 170 over anyone in pride. hughes was the best 170 in the world by a long shot during that period
however for arguements sake lets say pride was better...you made the post of MMA promotion in the US anyhow...there has never been any MMA promotion in the usa that even comes close to competing with the UFC during any time period.
so your best case scenario is for a period of about 2 years pride was a better organization for heavyweights. yeah great arguement....