Having problems with ROSS??

Scott - you have mail.

As per Scott's request, I'll attempt to better explain my views on Warrior Wellness and how it interplays with ROSS.

Everyone that has viewed/trained with ROSS has heard how important movement,posture,breathing, etc are to your training. Upon hearing this they seek out more information on it and are shown the varying drills/ principles regarding it. However at this point they become confused. They start to think "I have no clue where to start, how to organize it, that kind of thing.". It is at this point that Warrior Wellness truely shines.

In Warrior Wellness, the movement/health exercises are demonstrated and explained in detail. After the demos, they are then put into an actual "workout" format, an "ABC" approach if you will.

Once you have the material in a workout format, you find it easier to train and therefore, are actually more likely to train it. Once you start doing the drills in an orgainzed manner, you will slowly start to see how you can add other drills. and from there you are well on the way to actually learning ROSS and how it augments your skill sets.

In my experince, people often don't do well when dropped into a "free form" program. To start with, they need alittle structure, or guidance, in order to get them moving in the right direction. For me W.W. is that key in regards to ROSS.


Let me start off by saying that I had this realization prior to watching tape 1 of Fisticuffs.

I have been reviewing and trying out the ROSS material for roughly the past year and I have experinced a problem or two with it. However, by doing some research on my own and talking with others, i manged to sort the issues out for the most part. However it wasn't until I watched Warrior Wellness that alot of things "clicked" for me. There was something about seeing the health material placed into a "workout" format, that made everything seem so simple to understand.

With that being said, if anyone out there has had problems with the health or ROSS (as a whole) material, I would HIGHLY suggest that they invest in atleast the first volume of Warrior Wellness.


TKDfighter, we can definitely agree. As for the applications, I think just about any exercise in ROSS has some sort of application. We may not always see it, but it is there.

bobstra - What I believe Justin meant was; at first we may not see the application for a movement, but that doesn't mean that one isn't present.

One application for the shinbox, in my experince, is the ability to set a hook quicker while doing guard work in my BJJ classes. For example; start on your knees, go into a shinbox. Your opponent will move forward to "bowl" you over, and poof! instant hook.


No offense, but I believe alot of people need to focus on regaining full range of motion and having proper integration on breathing, alignment, and movement before worrying about the "combative" application of every drill being shown.

bobstra - Good to see no offense was taken. I'm in no place to say what GTB was designed for, only Scott can truely answer this question. IMO, however, its best used for whatever your goals are. Some have it for one reason and others have it for another.

Just a note, I too, enjoy reading other people's experiences with GTB and the other ROSS materials. Hopefully this thread will continue along the positive track it is on now.

Now I'm off to finish writing a magazine article.



The reason there were no given applications of the material is becuase you don't want to limit your perspective on what something is and should be used for .

Limit your options, limit your survival.

Take the gun for example many people would think that since the a gun has no ammo left it is useless, but allow your self to improvise, and that gun becomes the just the right instrument for your self-preservation at the time.

When we are allowed to improvise we won't know how our training or how the movements in GTB will aide us until they are needed for your unique situation.

If someone premakes those applications for you then you may compartmentalize the pattern and limit its ability to aide you in unique situations. Our goal is to develope overall control of our organism in 3 dimensions to be able to move safely in and out of any position or movement that might limit our survival in combat, sport, street defense ,etc

Also these are not conventional exercises, meaning you don't just do ten then stop. These are developemental this why as ROSSifarians we tell every one to "just play with them" because this lends you the ability to create your applications for these, rather than rehearsing fixed applications that leave you limited and tatically unenlightened.

Try this!

Create a new application for the movement every time you train.

It doesn't have to make sense and be appropriate right now in your personal practice. This performs the same function as "Free-writing" for writers to stimulate creativity. This kind of exploration may seem trifling at first, but once the creativity begins to flow you will start to create more realistic applications. You also will be putting the ART back into your own Martial Art, a fundamental many people miss.

Have you ever been training and then all of the sudden you figure some thing out that has been there the whole time yet you didn't "get it" until just then?

This type of break-through event is more likely to occur when you are just playing around rather than trying to get to the end result directly. ( read the Book "FLOW" by Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi for references to "end-gaining")
We all instinctively get good at things that are fun or that we enjoy. This improves not only our ability to improvise, but also our morale when we are engaging in activities we find enjoyable.
These two factors,(improvisation and morale) are what Karl Von Clausewitz,( title of the book is "On War") states are the things that help us navigate through the "friction and fog" of combat.

The way the material is presented is deliberate my friend and the approach to training is woven seamlessly through out ROSS.

My advise is to give up any preconcieved notions of what the gun, exercise, and ROSS is.

Just play with it, becuase you CAN play all day , but you probably CAN NOT exercise all day.

Limit your options, limit your survival.

Hope this helps,

Dani'l Chomycia

bobstra, my .02. When you start to look at bjj moves closely and dissect them you will see pieces of varios postions in the GTB. The shinbox is more than just a way to get up from your back. If you use the mount that Sperry uses in VT I series, you'll notice it is a shin box. I get the straight arm bar from mount using this method...it is slow and tight. The spinning arm bar from the knee on chest/oppt. pushes your knee tech. is a derivative of the same movement pattern. I found the various drills strung together flowed like the animal gymnastics some use. I just free form play for about 30 mins. It has helped my transitions. I confess there is lot about the GTB I don't get yet, but what I have been able to work has helped me out.

Bobstra, I agree with most of your points. If I have any criticism of the material I have seen from the GTB and Zdrovye (sp?) it is a lack of concrete examples. This is especially so in the GTB. I think it is great to explore, innovate, tweak, create your own movements but for most this is difficult without some structure and contextual examples. A great supplement to the gtb might be drills and exampples of uses for the various movements...to stimulate/nudge the creative process. Having said that, I have derived a lot of benefit from doing the movements in the GTB series (don't have the partner GTB yet). I have found a lot uses for the movements, while some of the other movements seem to give me "coordination" to accomplish a skill. For me, I have discovered more efficient ways to move on the mat. We talked about the shinbox above. If you do the hip bump sweep from the guard (trap an arm, come up and hip over your oppt.) you will notice it is in essence a shinbox. Well, one of the shinbox drills is learning to come up by screwing up on your arm/forearm. It is an efficient, quick way to sit up in a shinbox. This leads to a mount position, but most players will already be initiating an elbow escape from here. I usually smoothly go to reverse scarf hold right away. I found the smoothness in this transition by doing the drill on GTB that has you lie face down, and reverse step over to opposite hand. These are a couple of personal examples. Hope they help and that they are understandable. I guess in essence what I am trying to say is that solo, I can do things for drills that help my smoothness and transitional abilities when I train with a partner. Hope this helps.

WW contains contains some of the exercises in GTB and the Dykhaniye tape. Keep in mind that I only have the 1st volume of WW.

I beleive Scott Fabel has made mention of adding in more and more of the GTB material to your WW workouts after you have a solid grasp on the original content.


ttt, I was curious about its relationship to GTB and Dykhaniye as well.


Okay. How different is Warrior Wellness from the entire GTB series & Dykhaniye tape? Does it combine material from both?

My gathering of the content lies in that we don't want a routine, but something to start with. Once we have the base, it is our world to explore. - Justin, this line is what I hinted at in my other posts. For some, "free form" only leads to confussion in the begining. A structured format, no matter how simple, allows them to begin training in a format that they are used to seeing (A step by step approach). After they have a grasp on the basic concepts, it is easier for them to move onto a more "personal" journey.



Thanks for all the info so far!!

One question: Are the movements on these tapes strictly for 'exercise' or do they have applications in a more dynamic sphere?

Thanks again


Aus, the "exercises" are perfectly applicable to actions in the dynmaic sphere. Keep in mind alot of these exercises are presented in other volumes aswell. For example you are going to find material from the Shock triology, IOUF, Fisticuffs, etc contained on these tapes. If you can apply those principles/drills, then you won't have any problem with WW.


I have the warrior wellness tapes, as well as many other series, including GTB, Shockability, Zdorovye and fisticuffs. I can definitely agree with TKDfighter's comments. Warrior wellness is a systematic way look working the whole body. Start at the top and work your way down, at least that's the way it's presented. It presents a large number of basic concepts and begins the biomechanical integration of the body. Many of us can look at GTB and the other tapes and begin the movements. We don't totally understand them, but with practice we get a good idea. However, doing the workout routine focuses on simple movements at first. As you move through the tapes, the full body integration becomes the primary goal/concept.

This goal, includes biomechanical efficiency and breathing. This is something we all recognize as major features of ROSS. Because WW breaks it down in this manner, I think it is easier to start with the first tape. Once you get the hang of it and work through the second, the integration starts taking place. This is where I began to get a better understanding of the rest of the ROSS series' content. I also agree with TKD's comment about have a structured routine. Many people want that to aid in their learning. WW does this. However, I think Scott would "chirp," in with some wisdom, by stating that it isn't about routines. My gathering of the content lies in that we don't want a routine, but something to start with. Once we have the base, it is our world to explore. Anyway, I'm just rambling now. So, I hope you all have a happy holidays and spend lots of time with the family.

I left the forum for a quick Christmas break and this has turned into an excellent thread. Scott will have to review it and we can get his perspective. Me personally, I think we each train in some style whether through tapes or classes. Now, if you dissect your training regimen and then watch the ROSS tapes, you will begin to see some of the movements. The ROSS tapes are not designed to teach us the direct technique. However, if you're rollin' with you training partner and have been practicing ROSS, your partner will most likely see the difference. You may not even notice it. However, you've been practicing these sets of movements and now your body is better at performing them.

Now, if you're only practicing with ROSS it them becomes a game of experimentation. For the person learning only ROSS, I might agree, to some extent, the some sort of technique information might be useful. Then again, that's what seminars and classes are for. Techniques are definitely conveyed better by an instructor, as are the ROSS exercises. However, I think we can each gain a good deal of knowledge from videotapes if we're willing to experiment. Anyway, I'm rambling again. Good luck with your training and have a happy rest of the holidays.

Just a quick addition. I would like to add that having these principles and then beginning to work on techniques can make you a formidable opponent. ROSS seems to be a system where you get the basics ideas and go from there. Looking back into history. Most of the greatest martial artists learned their material through expirementation. I think we can all learn a great deal from them too. Just a couple of thoughts from my still developing and young mind. Happy holidays!

Justin, you made a point I wanted to add. My training partners have been doing a lot of the biomechanical movements as a prelude to class. When I go over technical material for the class that night (sweeps, open guard work, or whatever) I will stop and point out the transitional movement and how it relates to a particular exercise we've been drilling. I swear to god they have noticed their grappling become more fluid. Some of it is undeniably just more mat time but everyone says that the exercises help them in their ability to perform the techniques so quickly. I think the value of the gtb is that is allows you (as an individual) to access your techiques more efficiently. I wrote some time ago that when I first got the gtb, I was disappointed. I expected exercises, sets, reps, etc. I initially dismissed it, thought the reviews were hype and chocked it up to experience. A few months later I started doing some of the drills in my basement, combined them with the animal gymnastics that I was exposed to and started to see the hidden value in the movements. I couldn't see them at first, because I viewed them on a vcr...not try them on the mat (before I made a judgement). After about a year of using the gtb I honestly can say they have helped me as a bjj practioner and competitor improve beyond just doing mat time alone. For those people that have the initial impression I had, I would say try the drills for awhile before making a judgement on its worth. You have to FEEL the movements for their worth, not VIEW them. Happy new year everyone, btw!

Excellent Thread!

It seems like a lot of questions are about how to
use these movements in context (i.e. shinbox to
get from this position.....etc.)so I thought I would
share my personal experiences with Zodrovye.

What I have found is that by doing the movements
for the movements sake itself and not looking for a
context specific application of the movement I am
moving smoother and quicker (it helps too when
other people comment about the improvment) Let
me explain.

When grappling you will find yourselves with
different opportunities to apply techniques, ie.
"Wow I am in this position and from this position I
can apply tech. A, B, C, D, .....I think I will go with
B......AAAHHHHH nuts my window for that has just

Notice the thought process. There is an extra step
we take when we are looking for (and choosing)
the correct technique for the application.

A few weeks ago I was rolling with someone who
was stronger and more skilled than myself
(imagine that :-) During the course of our match
he caught me in several holds and the interesting
thing was that I did NOT think " He has me in hold
A, I can counter him with A,B, or C" what I thought
was "I am in this position and I want to be out and
to that position" Wham! I escaped and reversed
every thing he caught me in. (I recieved many a
"good match" that night :-)

Do not get me wrong I am not anti technique, what
I have found is that by doing Zodrovye my BODY
has aclimatized to my MIND's thoughts. (I took out
the 56k from my mind to body and replaced it with
a cable modem)

Almost like football players learning ballet ........
When they get to the field thay are not thinking of
ballet just the agressivness of there sport..... but
what they might or might not notice is that they are
moving more fluid, dodging tackles, etc... more
efficiently then if they would have just practiced 34
hr 's on the tackle sled.

Just my personal experiences, I hope it made
Happy Holidays!

Mac Hege