Hell,does it exist?

"In the Days and Hours of Saturn thou canst perform experiments to summon the Souls from Hades, but only of those who have died a natural death. Similarly on these days and hours thou canst operate to bring either good or bad fortune to buildings; to have familiar Spirits attend thee in sleep; to cause good or ill success to business, possessions, goods, seeds, fruits, and similar things, in order to acquire learning; to bring destruction and to give death, and to sow hatred and discord."

okay,I see i've gone about this discussion wrong,so i'm attempting to restart and do this correctly.

 

I once thought how could such a place like hell exist if our Heavenly Father loves us and wants us all to be saved and have everlasting life,i also found many points in scriptures that point to us being asleep when dead,such as with Jesus and Lazuras.Then i began studying the concepts and original writings pre-dating the teachings of hell.

I would love to hear and read more points and facts about this suppose place,because it makes no sense to me,or it doesn't jive with ressurection as written in the scriptures.

I must be careful what i post,as i do not wish to offend anyone,but i do have much info on this point.

thanx for your time.

r.w.

The Hours of Saturn, of Mars, and of the Moon are alike good for communicating and speaking with Spirits; as those of Mercury are for recovering thefts by the means of Spirits.

The Hours of Mars serve for summoning Souls from Hades,especially of those slain in battle.

 

The Samurai and the Monk

Once a Samurai visited a monk and asked to learn the way of heaven and
enlightenment. The monk spit on him and slapped him. The samurai ,
furious, raised his sword to cut him down.

The monk said....this is the way of hell.

The samurai sheathed his sword and bowed.....and this is the way of
heaven..the monk said.

The story goes something like that. Hope that helps.

it's a nice story,i enjoyed reading it.

i may missed it but the answer has been revealed to the question

I told him in a hopefully friendly way that if he wanted serious discussion here, he needed to support his arguments with something, not just random statements. Its like that one fighter guy. posting randoms stuff. We deleted all his posts. It was just annoying. You can say WHATEVER YOU BELIEVE AND HOWEVER YOU WANT TO SUPPORT IT BUT DONT MAKE TROLL POSTS.

Now Ill step aside and let robert go at it.

No.

Fortunately.

Prof.

hey,been at college gettin my edumacation.

here goes:

The term Hell is derived from Old English helan to conceal.

in olden days the word had a completly different meaning,than it does now.

Hell appears in several mythologies and religions. It is commonly inhabited by demons and the souls of dead people.

Hell is often depicted in art and literature, perhaps most famously in Dante's Divine Comedy.

Judaism does not have a specific doctrine about the afterlife, but it does have a tradition of describing Gehenna. Gehenna is not hell, but rather a sort of Purgatory where one is judged based on his or her life's deeds. The Kabbalah describes it as a "waiting room" (commonly translated as an "entry way") for all souls (not just the wicked). The overwhelming majority of rabbinic thought maintains that people are not in Gehenna forever; the longest that one can be there is said to be 11 months, however there has been the occasional noted exception. Some consider it a spiritual forge where the soul is purified for its eventual ascent to Olam Habah (heb. "The world to come", often viewed as analogous to Heaven). This is also mentioned in the Kabbalah, where the soul is described as breaking, like the flame of a candle lighting another: the part of the soul that ascends being pure and the "unfinished" piece being reborn.

When one has so deviated from the will of god, one is said to be in gehinom. This is not meant to refer to some point in the future, but to the very present moment. The gates of teshuva (return) are said to be always open, and so one can align his will with that of god at any moment. Being out of alignment with god's will is itself a punishment according to the Torah.

we can remember Jesus descending to preach to those in pergatory(Hell) thus showing that they were not lost,but yet could still be saved.

Luke 12:5 records Jesus speaking about God's Judgment: "But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear Him, which after He hath killed hath Power to cast into Hell; (this word is miss translated in most bibles and should actually read Sheol) yea, I say unto you, Fear Him."

In Paul's letter to the Thessalonian church he describes a separation taking place: "The Lord Jesus shall be revealed from Heaven with His mighty angels, In flaming fire taking Vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the Presence of the Lord, and from the Glory of his Power" (2 Thessalonians 1:7-9) (removal from the cycle of life.)

Most modern Christians see Hell as the eternal punishment for unrepentant sinners, as well as for the Devil and his demons. Unbelievers are said to deserve Hell on account of original sin according to many conservative denominations. Sometimes exceptions are understood for those who have had extenuating circumstances (youth, mental illness, invincible error, etc.). As opposed to the concept of Purgatory, damnation to Hell is considered final and irreversible. However, the foundation of the Christian faith is that it is the death of Jesus Christ, and acceptance of his love for us, that allows repentant sinners to avoid the torments of Hell and enjoy eternity with God.

Now we can look at some things that Jesus said;

John 11:11--....Our friend Lazarus sleepeth (Mt-9:24;Acts-7:60;1 Cor-15:51); but I go,that I may awake him out of sleep.

we see here that even after 4 days,the spirit and soul of Lazarus,had not gone anywhere,but instead this verse actually agrees with the story of the resurection,which tells us that the righteous dead shall arise first,upon the return of Jesus,and the beginning of the rapture.If you go on further,in revelations you can find where the rest of the dead,also rise up,for judgement,and the wicked are cast into the Lake of Fire.

If a sinner is already in hell,is Jesus so mean as to bring a person outta hell,to cast that person into yet another place of fire and torment? I say no,I believe that from revelations and the story of the lake of fire,is where the stories of hell and fire have evolved from.For you can see clearly that God opens the lake of fire in those days and beelzubal(satan) and his cohorts are the first ones thrown in.

Revelations 3:5-he that overcometh,the same shall be clothed in white raiment;and I will not blot his name out of the book of life,but I will confess his name before my Father,and before his angels.

Here we see that until Jesus's return,no one has been judged yet! We can also see in the new testament,where Jesus tells us,that Father has turned the judging of the people over to him.

Also, Revelation 20:10  illustrates Hell as a "lake with burning sulfur". Our modern, more graphic, images of Hell have developed from writings that are not found in the Bible. Dante's The Divine Comedy is a classic inspiration for modern images of Hell. Other early Christian writings also illustrate the anguish of Hell. These texts include the Apocalypse of Peter and the Coptic Apocalypse of Paul. Both these pieces of literature tell of the author being taken on a personal tour of Heaven and Hell. These writings tell of what the authors witnessed during their journeys. Most Christians believe that damnation occurs immediately upon death (particular judgment), and others that it occurs after Judgment Day, which is written about in the book of Revelation. Attitudes toward Hell and damnation have changed over the centuries (for example, see Limbo), and most Restorationist groups reject the traditional concept of Hell altogether (see Annihilationism, Seventh-day Adventists, Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons, and Universalists). These latter theologies allege the mutual exclusivity of barbaric portrayals of Hell with the benevolent nature of God.

to be continued....

 

 

I'm really confused by the no hell concept.

If there is no hell , then what is the point of Christianity and Sin ?

What is there to be saved from ?

"If there is no hell , then what is the point of Christianity and Sin ?

What is there to be saved from ?"

-

precisley but for some folks that makes too much sense

The structure of Hell is remarkably complex in many Chinese and Japanese religions. The ruler of Hell has to deal with politics, just as human rulers do. Hell is the subject of many folk stories and manga. In many such stories, people in hell are able to die again.

^(This agrees in essence to the stories of Hades and the underworld.)

The Chinese depiction of Hell doesn't necessarily mean a long time suffering for those who enter Hell, nor does it mean that person is bad. The Chinese view Hell as similar to a present day passport or immigration control station. In a Chinese funeral, they burn many Hell Bank Notes for the dead. With this Hell money, the dead person can bribe the ruler of Hell, and spend the rest of the money either in Hell or in Heaven. There is a belief that once the dead person runs out of Hell money, and he does not receive more, he will be eternally poor...

^(This agrees in essence with Egyptian beliefs)

well i have lots more but today is not a good day for writing,many things falling on my plate today,

I will finish later,Have a Great Day! r.w.

 

i quickly read,The Hawker seems to be on the same tract,just from a different view point,i got little league and have to run,your trying to be saved,(not live a wicked life) from the lake of fire,on the judgement day,and major evidence supports this.look foreward to continued discussions.

research for yourself,you'll be amazed what you find,and the correctly translated version of the modern Christian bible does not hurt,it actually heightens the testimony.

r.w.

Yes it does, for me it's Pentecoastal preachers spewing heresy into my home on Sunday mornings, that and being nice to the clueless Jehovah Witness's who think I'm the one in need of finding God! Crazy Millerites!

Hell is real enough. I don't think hell is what has been popularly conceived in the West for the last several centuries. Most people are in hell if they are put in isolation and denied the satisfaction of their passions for even a short length of time. Why are we utterly terrified of solitary confinement? Why are we not at peace with ourselves and God in that state?

I have come to accept the Eastern Orthodox conception of hell, which makes more sense than the western version I was raised with. However, it would be a mistake to think it is somehow less terrifying. It is more terrifying to me. Imagine getting to a point where you are incapable of loving anything outside of yourself. Its a real enough possibility. When love becomes a torturing fire because you can no longer experience love, I can't think of a more apt description of truly being damned.

Will the love of God finally woo all souls into communion with him? We aren't told, but there may be biblical hints (Paul's vision in the third heaven for instance). The danger of hell as the loveless state is real enough today however. I don't know how people can't see that.

By the way, if you have been taught that Christianity is primarily salvation from hell (fire insurance) I would strongly suggest you start over from scratch on the subject. That is nothing more than a complete perversion of the original gospel message. Its not even good news really when you think about it.

^lol,no not good news at all.

Ancient Taoism had no concept of hell, as morality was seen to be a man-made distinction and there was no concept of an immaterial soul. In its home country China, where Taoism adopted tenets of other religions, popular belief endows Taoist Hell with many deities and spirits who punish sin in a variety of horrible ways. This is also considered Karma for Taoism.

In Hinduism, there are contradictions as to whether or not there is a hell (referred to as 'Narak' in Hindi). For some it is a metaphor for a conscience. But in Mahabharata there is a mention of the Pandavas and the Kauravas going to hell. Hells are also described in various Puranas and other scriptures. Garuda Purana gives a detailed account on hell, its features and enlists amount of punishment for most of the crimes like modern day penal code.

It is believed that people who commit 'paap' (sin) go to hell and have to go through the punishments in accordance to the sins they committed. The god Yama, who is also the god of death, is the king of hell. The detailed accounts of all the sins committed by an individual are supposed to be kept by Chitragupta who is the record keeper in Yama's court. Chitragupta reads out the sins committed and Yama orders the appropriate punishments to be given to the individuals. These punishments include dipping in boiling oil, burning in fire, torture using various weapons etc. in various hells. Individuals who finish their quota of the punishments are reborn according to their karma. All of the created are imperfect and thus have at least one sin to their record, but if one has led a generally pious life, one ascends to Heaven, or Swarga after a brief period of expiation in hell.

As diverse as other religions, there are many beliefs about Hell in Buddhism.

Most of the schools of thought, Therav?da, Mah?y?na, and Vajray?na would acknowledge several hells [1] [2] [3], which are places of great suffering for those who commit evil actions, such as cold hells and hot hells. Like all the different realms within cyclic existence, an existence in hell is temporary for its inhabitants. Those with sufficiently negative karma are reborn there, where they stay until their specific negative karma has been used up, at which point they are reborn in another realm, such as that of humans, of hungry ghosts, of animals, of asuras, of devas, or of Naraka (Hell) all according to the individual's karma.

There are a number of modern Buddhists, especially among Western schools, who believe that hell is but a state of mind. In a sense, a bad day at work could be hell, and a great day at work could be heaven. This has been supported by some modern scholars who advocate the interpretation of such metaphysical portions of the Scriptures symbolically rather than literally.

The Bahá'í Faith regards the conventional description of hell (and heaven) as a specific place as symbolic. Instead the Bahá'í writings describe hell as a "spiritual condition" where remoteness from God is defined as hell; conversely heaven is seen as a state of closeness to God. Bahá'u'lláh, the founder of the Bahá'í Faith, has stated that the nature of the life of the soul in the afterlife is beyond comprehension in the physical plane, but has stated that the soul will retain its consciousness and individuality and remember its physical life; the soul will be able to recognize other souls and communicate with them.

Bahá'u'lláh likened death to the process of birth. He explains: "The world beyond is as different from this world as this world is different from that of the child while still in the womb of its mother."The analogy to the womb in many ways summarizes the Bahá'í view of earthly existence: just as the womb constitutes an important place for a person's initial physical development, the physical world provides for the development of the individual soul. Accordingly, Bahá'ís view life as a preparatory stage, where one can develop and perfect those qualities which will be needed in the next life.The key to spiritual progress is to follow the path outlined by the current Manifestations of God, which Bahá'ís believe is currently Bahá'u'lláh. Bahá'u'lláh wrote, "Know thou, of a truth, that if the soul of man hath walked in the ways of God, it will, assuredly return and be gathered to the glory of the Beloved,"

The Bahá'í teachings state that there exists a hierarchy of souls in the afterlife, where the merits of each soul determines their place in the hierarchy, and that souls lower in the hierarchy cannot completely understand the station of those above. Each soul can continue to progress in the afterlife, but the soul's development is not dependent on its own conscious efforts, but instead on the grace of God, the prayers of others, and good deeds performed by others on Earth in the name of the person,such as if i did a good deed in the name of my grandfather.

In Maya mythology Xibalbá is the dangerous underworld in nine levels ruled by the demons Vucub Caquix and Hun Came. The road into and out of it is said to be steep, thorny and very forbidding. Metnal is the lowest and most horrible of the nine hells of the underworld. It is ruled by Ah Puch. Ritual healers would intone healing prayers banishing diseases to Metnal. Much of the Popol Vuh describes the adventures of the Maya Hero Twins in their cunning struggle with the evil lords of Xibalbá.

some clues in ancient writings point to the underworld,a completly different place,where the perverse souls,that came from the uniting of the watcher angels and humans was banned to after the great flood to clean up belzubals mess,reference genesis chapter 6,book of Enoch 1,this can be supported by writings about Solomon,found outside the common bible.

The Unification Church teaches that hell is the condition of being separated from God's love. Hell can be said to exist in this world as well as in the afterlife. Those in the state of hell can repent by paying a condition of indemity and change their condition, both before and after death (Although, the process is done differently). The Divine Principle, the main textbook of church teachings, says:

It is not God who decides whether a person's spirit enters heaven or hell upon his death; it is decided by the spirit himself. Humans are created so that once they reach perfection they will fully breathe the love of God. Those who committed sinful deeds while on earth become crippled spirits who are incapable of fully breathing in the love of God. They find it agonizing to stand before God, the center of true love. Of their own will, they choose to dwell in hell, far removed from the love of God.

Myself,I could not think of a worse punishment than to be removed from the love of God,and the cycle of life.

The Wiccan faith is broadly guided by a simple set of rules. One popular Wiccan school of thought teaches that the soul experiences cycles of reincarnation, with periods of rest in a place known as The Summerland between mortal incarnations. There is no Hell, in conventional terms of an afterlife filled with torment, but a soul may face retribution for bad deeds committed in a past life by suffering through a hellish life in the next life. Wicca is about balance in life. When you do something bad, you pay the price. The primary rule in Wicca is "an' it harm none, do as ye will". It is often said that doing harm to somebody or going against somebody's will with the use of Magick will result in the spell or ritual backifirng and causing unpleasant consequences to the caster. This justice is often delivered threefold. For example, if you cause someone to fall in love with you then they may turn into your stalker or if you try to hurt someone, you will be hurt 3 times worse. This kharma belief means there is no need for hell.

Sheol
In the King James Bible, the Old Testament term sheol is translated as hell 31 times. However Sheol was translated as "grave" 31 times. Sheol is also translated as pit three times.

Gehenna
In the New Testament of the KJV, Gehenna is always translated as Hell.

Hades
The KJV translates Hades as Hell 10 times, and as grave once. Hades is traditionally the Greek word used to mean sheol.

Tartarus
The KJV translates tartarus, which appears only in II Pet. 2:4, as Hell.

Infernus
The Latin word infernus means "being underneath" and is often translated as "Hell."

"Hell" is sometimes used as a minced oath, as "H-E-double-hockey-sticks", "H-E-double-toothpicks", "heck" or "Sam Hill" ("What in the Sam Hill is going on here?"). Another common euphemism for Hell is "The Other Place".Example: "Gosh darn you to heck and tarnation" in place of "May God damn you to hell and eternal damnation."

But through out all writings on the subject,I have noticed that seperation from God is damnation in its self.While it might be shocking for some to realize,that your love ones who have passed on are neither in hell or Heaven(unless they recieved a pass from God,for example Elisha.)

It is important to understand that in all writings that i have read and studied,our Heavenly Father wants and is his will that all be saved and recieve eternal life,and to deny that God's Will...will be done is silly.

hell is the impossibility of reason....

oh wait no thats religion snickers

Still my fav religious joke after all these years ...

we all going to hell

i'm not!

Hell yes, unfortunately for many.