you should still look at the cost of school vs your potential earnings.
I KEEP SAYING THAT IT SHOULD BE LOOKED AT FROM THE PERSPECTIVE OF ROI RATHER THAN DOLLAR SUMS. I have stated that on the thread at least 4 or 5 times.
The sticker price isn't the sticker price, especially in states like New York and New Jersey that offer generous payment caps and loan forgiveness cut those numbers drastically if you are going public sector.
GentileLarryDavid -Zned -you should still look at the cost of school vs your potential earnings.
I KEEP SAYING THAT IT SHOULD BE LOOKED AT FROM THE PERSPECTIVE OF ROI RATHER THAN DOLLAR SUMS. I have stated that on the thread at least 4 or 5 times.
The sticker price isn't the sticker price, especially in states like New York and New Jersey that offer generous payment caps and loan forgiveness cut those numbers drastically if you are going public sector.
I didn't read every post, just when you said don't value shop education and compared it to sushi. Looking at ROI is indeed value shopping, so I'll just chalk it up to confusion based on contradictory statements on your end and not reading on mine.
You also have to consider that different schools result in different outcomes.
A degree in education from NYU or Columbia is going to come to a very different outcome than a degree from SUNY Albany. Just stating the average starting salary of a teach in the state of New York isn't going to give you a clear understanding of the potential ROI.
Schools aren't equal, cheaper isn't better.
Going to the best program you can get into is more important than the dollar cost.
The benefits of a higher quality education extend well beyond the starting salary, and term sof the loan. You want to look at differences in career long income averages, not a ten year or less window.
I think it all depends on a person's goals or profession on which school they should choose. JC, state, private etc. Too many students spend too much money on worthless or unnecessary degrees.
For instance, my nephew graduated from University Nevada Reno. Over the course of 4 years, my brother paid for room and board coming out of pocket in the 50 K range.
My nephew owes 80k on the student loan. Here’s the kicker. He is going to be a police officer. That was his intent when he was 18 years old. My brother (police officer) told him to hit up a JC and apply at one of the police departments at 21 or 22 years of age. My nephew refused to listen and now owes 80K for no reason other than having a piece of paper that says Reno Nevada graduate.
He’s 25 now and it looks like he will be entering a police academy in a couple of months. He could have been a cop earning 100K a year for the last 4 years while working toward being vested by age 26 (basically, 5 years of employment gets you a minimal pension check at age 55 years). Instead, he owes money and has yet to start his career.
Made no sense to me or my brother to rack up debt…
Al Cappucino -Why stop at student loans? Why not car loans?? Home loans?
Yes please!
Mark1 -Half of the debt is for students owing over $100k. But that's only 6% of the students total, with 95% for grad school. These are kids borrowing large sums to go to law school, med school and b school. These kids will be able to paid their loans without issue.
The largest group in default are those that owe less than $5k. They are students that went to (got duped into) private, for-profit school and dropped out. U of Phoenix, Devry etc. costs are exorbitant and job outlook is crap. They have the debt and no degree. Those are the ones that are really over a barrel.
Mark
You have that backwards. The ones with over $100k are the ones who would spend the most and have more money flowing into the economy than being paid to debt. They’re the ones making more, but also paying substantially more in debt repayments and interest. If that debt was forgiven, then they would be spending more. But instead, they’re paying higher amounts in total interest payments than the smaller debtors and either living on much smaller budgets for shorter term loans or paying even more interest in longer term loans.
Subbed for later
TheRoguewrestler - If you can't afford college, DONT GO!!!! Go to a local Adult School and learn a fucken trade for a fraction of the cost and have little problems finding a decent paying job.
This! So many fail to understand the value in the trade skills but trust me as soon as something breaks, everyone knows to call one of the following:
Electrician
Plumber
Construction (Contractor)
We are fucked if our kids fall for this student loan forgiveness shit, if our kids are so stupid they support this then we have failed them.
Maybe we can come up with it like we did for World War 3 that never happen. Or hide it under more tax cuts for the 1% then y'all wouldn't have a problem, hell y'all would stand up for it.
The easiest way to do it is to take the money from the institutions that make the money from the loans. If a loan has existed for x years at y rate, then it's forgiven. Calculate x(y) = z with z being a comfortable profit for the lending institution, say a total 50% of debt. So, a $5000 loan @ 12% APR that has been paid for 8 years would be forgiven and the bank would have made over $2500 off the original $5k. What's being erased is the additional profit the bank would have made, not the money that paid for the education.
Also, limiting it to people who earned a degree would cut out the folks who treated student loans as free money.
I just opend two letters from the IRS that said that I was supposed to get almost $1000 refund but it went to my never ending student debt. Basically threw my money away. That debt is never going to be paid especially with interest or penalties, it's over 200k I'm sure. I really could have used it.
Credit to the traditionally all-things-college-hating OG for a college thread that isn't a complete idiotic clusterfuck.
My 2c: We (the US) should have just paid up front. These half-assed compromises we insist our politicians make to satisfy both sides are ultimately what end up fucking everybody (except the bankers).
Remove the government restriction against default & this resolves itself in relatively short order without taxing anyone.
Moving forward, if the government still wants to stimulate the public braintrust, it should do so without middlemen. Then the goals & standards become clear. We want, say, programmers & physicists; here’s your cash & here’s what we expect from you every semester. You can spend a year finding yourself or partying or spouse shopping or studying whatywhatism on your own dime.
"Why stop at student loans? Why not car loans?? Home loans? "
People can already walk from car & home loans. TF?
BarkLikeADog - "Why stop at student loans? Why not car loans?? Home loans? "People can already walk from car & home loans. TF?
Why not stop at all credit card debt? And all mortgage debt? Because some people buy shit they don’t need and buy houses that are too big and now WAAAAAHHHH they can’t pay for it.
I think my 12 year old can explain why forgiving all debt is a stupid idea.
"the us cannot relieve itself if it's largest asset, "
We already debunked this in the thread you learned this from: The article was talking about financial instruments, i.e. US Bonds & tax receipts. It didn’t evaluate real property at all. Student loan debt is orders of magnitude smaller than mineral/fossil fuel rights.
"Why not stop at all credit card debt? And all mortgage debt? Because some people buy shit they don't need and buy houses that are too big and now WAAAAAHHHH they can't pay for it. "
I’m not one to tell you how to live your life, but I suspect you’ll move through it much happier if you make an effort to actually understand an opponent’s position before arguing against it.
keithws2 - I think it all depends on a person's goals or profession on which school they should choose. JC, state, private etc. Too many students spend too much money on worthless or unnecessary degrees.For instance, my nephew graduated from University Nevada Reno. Over the course of 4 years, my brother paid for room and board coming out of pocket in the 50 K range.
My nephew owes 80k on the student loan. Here’s the kicker. He is going to be a police officer. That was his intent when he was 18 years old. My brother (police officer) told him to hit up a JC and apply at one of the police departments at 21 or 22 years of age. My nephew refused to listen and now owes 80K for no reason other than having a piece of paper that says Reno Nevada graduate.
He’s 25 now and it looks like he will be entering a police academy in a couple of months. He could have been a cop earning 100K a year for the last 4 years while working toward being vested by age 26 (basically, 5 years of employment gets you a minimal pension check at age 55 years). Instead, he owes money and has yet to start his career.
Made no sense to me or my brother to rack up debt…
would having a degree allow him to fasttrack into detective work, rather than being stuck in general duties.
in australia, all police officers need to attain a degree in policing. but if u enter with another degree, (and then study the degree in policing), then u will be on general duties for 12 mths, then u can apply for the special areas such as detective, etc
somewhat like officer in military as a comparison
Question...would it be feasible to just not charge interest on student loans?
Just say to those with current loans, and or future loans, that they must pay it back but just the principle.
No interest.
I'm not 'Merican so if that is already the case then please let me know.
Captain Canuck -Question...would it be feasible to just not charge interest on student loans?
Just say to those with current loans, and or future loans, that they must pay it back but just the principle.
No interest.
I'm not 'Merican so if that is already the case then please let me know.
No one would underwrite them. There is no incentive to pay early, everyone would run them out to the last day. If they default there was no front end profit to hedge against that later default. Then, over the years they will be lending at a loss due to inflation, so even with a zero interest rate, the return is actually positive for the borrower, and negative for the lender.
Also, how would you fund the administartion of a loan with no interest over ten years? constant fees?
Zned -Captain Canuck -Question...would it be feasible to just not charge interest on student loans?
Just say to those with current loans, and or future loans, that they must pay it back but just the principle.
No interest.
I'm not 'Merican so if that is already the case then please let me know.
No one would underwrite them. There is no incentive to pay early, everyone would run them out to the last day. If they default there was no front end profit to hedge against that later default. Then, over the years they will be lending at a loss due to inflation, so even with a zero interest rate, the return is actually positive for the borrower, and negative for the lender.
Also, how would you fund the administartion of a loan with no interest over ten years? constant fees?
Hmmm, I'm just trying to figure out how to give incentive to people to pay their loans.
What if as long as you pay your loan payments for 6 months straight then from that point on you stop having interest and pay directly to the principle?
But if you default you go back to paying interest and have to pay 6 months straight again before you can go off interest?
I just think that it would be great to give those people paying their loan a bit of a break without having to forgive all the loans.