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ttt ;)
xfc, did danny actually sign a contract document?
yes Danny signed a contract. These terms were conditional prior to me flying the US boy here.
My main reasoning is that I am more than happy to spend the $$ and bring people here for the boys, however, I do not think it is fair that I spend the money and then another promoter reaps the reward of utilising a fighter that has had such exposure. Had of Danny defeated VILLASENOR this would have been even more relevant.
As per previous I want this match to happen, as does Danny and his trainers. It is important Danny gets a fight as he will be absent for August and is unavailable for XFC5 on August 13th. I am pretty sure most people here would also like to see the match.
Justin
your business coach is not going to be happy with you ;)
And I was just commenting to someone last night on how good Justin had been staying away.
I thought he'd at least hold out until XFC 5 was closer...
;-)
Tank
This is for Danny. I'd break my own abstainance any day for the best intrests of a fighter.
Should this match NOT happen I want to make it 100% crystal clear Danny would love to fight Andrew DEVITT. I could promote the match in September, however, Danny is keen as am I for it to happen now. Danny and Kyle have both stated they will fight DEVITT Kyle at 77kg Danny at 84 in XFC or 80kg for the Spartan title.
Being that I am not promoting the show we will just have to wait and see how badly others want this match to happen.
Should Mr. DEVITT be reading this we wish him the best in his endeavours pre July 31 and a safe arrival at the show and only hope that Kerry can finalise this fight for Dannys, Andrew's and the fans sake. It would be a cracker!
Justin
*Hopes XFC gets busier and more popular so Justin doesn't have time to post here *
For the record, Danny, Andrew and Spartan are happy and have agreed to the conditions and terms. If Danny has obligations to sort out with XFC that is between the two parties involved. Let's hope they work it out.
Cheers!
For the information of all......
1) Danny is under sole contract with Xtreme productions t/a XFC.
2) The match can NOT happen without XFC greenlighting it with written approval.
*Danny and XFC are 100% on the same page re this*
3) Danny wants the match, XFC want him to fight on July 31.
4) The financial terms extended to Danny are reasonable however the "verbal" deal is way to vague for myself to permit or commit to in good faith to Danny.
5) The only "end/return" that XFC desires is that Danny is given status as representing the XFC. Exactly what Pride allowed LIDELL to do.
* note this is something we could have achieved underhandly by having Danny enter the ring full decked out in XFC attire and the match would have proceeded. I have made my intent clear regarding our desire to do this as a matter of good faith. I believe the request is not unreasonable.
6) Refer to clause 2 and satisfy clauses 4 & 5 and then we have a match.
The onus in this instance is 100% upon Kerry. Danny and XFC have sorted out all loose ends it is "worked out" as speculated above. As per previous Danny wants this, XFC wants this, DEVITT wants this and I assume the fans do !?!?!?! Lets just see if Kerry DUNNE wants this.
Danny HIGGINS is a fighter and does not need the psychological or emmotional burdon of any further negotiations. Danny knows what he wants and I know what I want, all of this correspondence was previously privately forwarded to Kerry and met with a negative result stating he will not "deal with anyone appart from Danny or his representative" and a further "I would prefer to have no more correspondence from you regarding this or any other matter".
Now danny is not managed and even if he was that would not change the fact that XFC need to greenlight danny's participation on this event.
This is nothing untowards or out of the ordinary and happens all the time eg LIDELL in Pride.. KIKUTA in Pride etc.... Contracted fighters like it or not are the property (for lack of a better word) of their employer/contract holder.
In closing...
See clauses 4 and 5 Mr. DUNNE and forward the details to justin@xfc.com.au
LETS MAKE THIS MATCH HAPPEN!!!!!!!!!
Justin
Well, I for one hope Kerry and Justin (and any other promoters that come onto the scene for that matter) can work this out.
I think the sport is too small here in Aus for fighters not to be able to fight on all the shows.
For what it's worth, I don't think it would be a problem for Danny to be "representing XFC" as a large number of the fans would know about his status regardless of whether he was "decked out" or not.
Maybe the promoters can come to a unilateral agreement that would allow contracted fighters to always represent the organisation they are aligned with anytime they fight on another show ?
That would mean one less thing to negotiate each time ?
Of course I know absolutely nothing about running an MMA show, so there could be a myriad of reasons why my suggestion is stupid/naive...
I'm just speaking as someone who's been to the last 2 Spartan and XFC shows, and intends to keep going 'cause they're both great shows !
Good luck fighters and promoters with working something out.
Tank
Thomas,
I really think that a knowledge of the inside workings of MMA is not neccessary to understand the guts of this instance. Danny, Kyle, Tony BONELLO and Ian SCHAFFA (had of his match proceeded) all agreed to sole contracts. I offered various terms and conditions that were conditional of them agreeing to the clause. They found that the return was sufficient enough for them to sign and outweighed potential future gain through fights on other shows.
I view it that I invested BIG in these guys on XFC4 and it is not fair for another promoter to reap the reward of my investment without appropriate consideration.
Whilst I believe that I am the only 1in Australia doing this do you really think that a John DONEHUE trained guy has the free will to fight for me or Kerry? Or a shindo trained guy have the free will to fight on another show? hell I offered Jacob a match V cade on Jan 31 and was blanket told "he will only fight him on spartan". I can accept this. But obviously the trainer/promoter must offer a sufficient return for the fighter.
In the instance of Jacob fighting for me or Cris BROWN as an eg. naturally I may be put in a position where I have to make concessions to John or Kerry respectively. Recently I was approached by John DONEHUE who knew of an exclussive deal I had with a fighter he wished to utilise. None of this is uncommon although it is obviously new to Kerry.
The fighters that I have exclussives with fully understand this and if any promoters wish to utilise NOKE, BONELLO or HIGGINS both the fighters and I are open for offers. Be aware in this instance regarding danny I did not request any financial consideration from Danny or Kerry simply wanted a plug at the show.
Justin
Justin,
I'm basically in agreement with you (I think)
What I'm suggesting, and I realise it is a very simple, naive suggestion, but for the sake of a robust discussion I made it anyway, is that it would be great if the MMA promoters in Aus (and lets face it, we are really only talking about you, Kerry and John D at the moment) could agree that if their fighters fight on someone else's show (forgetting money and any other considerations for the sake of this discussion) that they do so representing their organisation.
That is, in the example's you have given, Danny would fight at Spartan and be billed as an XFC fighter and attired accordingly, Jacob fights at XFC and is a Spartan fighter and likewise for Chris.
If this was agreed once, and not a consideration during other negotiations surely it would make things easier for everyone.
I don't see the harm, as, like I said, the "smart fans" (to quote some pain in the arse that used to post on here) already know if fighters are aligned with certain promoters.
I can also understand why it's a sticking point, but if the amount of "cross promotion" is agreed, and reciprocated, then surely the concerns of the promoters can at least be mitigated ?
Again, I hope you guys can come to some arrangement that works, as the sport is too small to keep some of the best talent locked to one show. At least for now.
I'm not silly to think it's as easy as I make out, I'm simply saying it would be nice if it was...
Again, good luck to you guys figuring out an option, for the sake of the fighters and the fans (bugger you promoters, you can all go suck eggs)
:-)
Tank
I have to agree with Tank. I also would have thought that the Australian MMA scene is much much smaller thant the UFC or Pride and if all promotors take fighters under exclusive contracts this could mean that the fighters can only fight 1/3 of all Australian fighters which i would have thought a 1/3 of Australian fighters in each weight would be fuck all.
But on the other had i can see why fighters would want to go with the best offers and get a few $ in their banks, i would just think Australain MMA might be a few years off the 3 promotors tying up all the fighters for their own shows.
I don't see a problem signing fighters to contracts (or working under "handshake" agreements or whatever)
The promoter needs to protect the work he puts in to fighters, or he may not have the incentive to do so beyond "the next fight"
I just hope that the promoters can streamline the "sharing" process, so that it isn't one more thing that needs to be negotiated each time.
I imagine there is already enough to deal with, such as money, opponents, flights, accom, entourage etc, without having to argue about what t-shirt can be worn in the ring.
Tank
LMFAO! you offered me the match??? I emailed cade directly regarding this.
"*Danny and XFC are 100% on the same page re this*"... obviously not.
Jacob,
I offered the match on Jan 31 to you via the appropriate chanel - Kerry. Were you not aware of this?? Kerry's response was "Not on that show" when I inquired if the date of Jan 31 was not suitable he stated that it was simply a matter of you only being permitted to fight on Spartan.
More recently you emailed Cade inquiring re a potential match on July 31 and I advised cade to persue it should the deal be good. I further stated to Cade that it would have to be a financially lucrative offer as he has beaten 2 guys that defeated you and the match was very backwards and non progressive.
Danny is off to stay a month with Diego SANCHEZ and train 24/7 with the boys in Ablbuquerque (VILLASENOR, Floyd SWORD etc.. under greg JACKSON). I wonder where that opportunity arose from?
As per previous I hope he gets the opportunity to fight DEVITT on July 31 but it is far from a done deal as per above.
Justin
Danny being signed under contract for XFC it just makes sense that if someone else wants to use him then Justin would have to be offered a deal.
If the person doesnt like the deal then just dont have that fighter on the show.
To be honest I don't really want to get into debating this via the internet as I believe these kind of sensitive negotiations should be kept more discreet, for all concerned, but;
I would hate to see MMA in Australia become hamstrung by politics as the Australian BJJ scene has been in the past.
Imagine theoretically. Danny Higgins becomes the XFC champ, Travers Grubb becomes the Aussie Shooto champ, and Andrew Devitt becomes the Spartan Champ, all at arond 80-84kg. They all sign exclusive contracts and none of them will fight outside their affiliated MMA organisation. Everybody loses, the fighters, the fans and the sport as a whole.
Not having a go at your exclusive contracting either Justin, I can understand you wanting to protect your investments so to speak.
Look to the promoters to put aside any personal history here and keep the sport open and alive in Australia, lets not shut it down with any unecessary barriers, monopoly or ego.
Regards
Gerald.
ps. Writing at way after midnight in Indonesia, might need to come back and edit tomorrow for clarity.