In your opinion, do all homosexual people suffer after they die because of their homosexuality?
On a side note, anyone ever Freuds' theories on homosexuality?
I have often thought that homos are 'made' for the most part and there is very little they can do about it. I thought maybe it was genetic or whatever.
Now I am fairly convinced it is due to early infantile sexual experiences, as Freud details.
freud also thought cocaine was a wonderful drug, he is not the pope man lest not start making his words scripture just yet.
and go tell Freud that richard simmons is only gay because of infantile sexual experiences.
anyways lets make sure we focus on homos becasues they are the real problem in society, not poverty or violence or oppression or war or apathy or whatever.
"anyways lets make sure we focus on homos becasues they are the real problem in society, not ...apathy or whatever..." -Bludhall
I honestly dont think homosexual desires someone feels are any more deserving of condenmation than the desire others feel to steal, commit adultery, eat an entire cake by yourself, take pride in your body in the mirror etc.
However I believe that engaging in homosexual acts is about one of the lowest most self-shaming activities you could possibly think up.
Its directly contrary what your body was designed and intended to do whether you are religious or not. Yes I know so is air conditioning etc but that doesnt change the point.
^ Philosophical question for you: If it were a proven scientific fact that homosexuality is because of genetics, would you still have the same opinion?
"homosexual" is a social construction. God only sees sinners.
I count five avoiding the question and one answering openly. Funny.
What does the statement "God only sees sinners" mean exactly?
It means "I don't take personal responsibility for my beliefs", I think
It means that we have labeled people who struggle with same sex attraction as if they were a different category of person (by the way, queer theorists think the designations are bs too). The indication of scripture is that unrepentant sinners will suffer when they die, not that people with same sex attraction are singled out. A straight man who doesn't repent of his fornication is more likely to suffer than either a homosexual or even a pedophilia who does repent of his sins. We are all sick. Some acknowledge this and ask for a cure and some ignore it.
oh..oh..okay, I see what you're saying.
Well then let me pose the question that I asked Helwig. If homosexuality were a proven scientific fact to be a genetic predisposition, would you still take the same stance that its a sin?
Yes. In fact, I am almost completely convinced that for some people same-sex attractions are heavily influenced by genetics. But then again I am convinced that alcoholism and drug abuse have strong genetic factors too. We are a fallen race which means we are broken from top to bottom and that includes genetic material. It would be better to think of the real definition of sin here, which is better described as a failure to meet our potential than as law breaking. We have fallen short of the glory of God.
So we are all strapped with urges and weaknesses we never asked for, but that is not where the real issue of what to do comes in. Its whether or not we want to admit we are broken in any number of ways that makes the difference. So one person has a very strong desire to be promiscuous and another has a strong desire to have sex with pre-pubescent children (you don't think that is really a choice do you?) and so forth and so on. The question is whether or not they see this as sickness or normality. If they realize they are sick and are willing to be cured they can be helped no matter how many times they stumble. If they decide that there is really nothing wrong with them then they can't be helped no matter who they are. And let me add that I think we are all broken sexually in our own ways. Even married couples struggle with sexual sin in any number of ways and none of us are safe in the sense we can assume we are "normal".
Finally, let me say that this stuff applies only to those who accept Christianity as true. I have nothing to say about how non-Christians choose to live their lives. That is why I am not against abolishing legal marriage and replacing it with civil unions for any two consenting adults, leaving marriage to be a private thing. Within the Church, however, homosexual marriage is a farce and a case of one type of sinner saying his sins don't exist.
So what do you believe will happen to non-Christian homosexuals after they die?
I believe that at the resurrection and final judgment all people will see Christ in his glory. He is light and the judgment is that men prefer darkness over the light. His nature will judge their hearts in the sense that if they prefer the dark over the light and prefer staying in their sins rather than the pain of repentance then that will be that. Whether or not they stay that way forever or for ages of ages is unknown and is a real controversy based on interpretation of certain words.
I do believe that every human will have a chance to meet Christ and make a clear decision, whether in this life or the next. There is biblical precedent in the sense that St. Peter said that Christ preached to the souls in prison (Hades or Sheol) and preached means they had a choice to follow him out of death or not.
The point is that a person with same sex attraction is not a special category of sinner.
"genetic predisposition" or not we all make choices. "
Okay, fair enough but if God has created all humankind including that which makes up our DNA, isn't it then in His will that Homosexuals exist as part of the "natural" order?
That is to say, if we can attribute sexuality to genetics then how can we say its against nature?
IMO, homosexual people do not suffer anymore or any less than the rest of us after we die. We all just go back to the Source of All Things.
That would be the case if a central tenet of Christianity was not the Fall. Yes we are created "good" by God, but we have fallen as a race. We broke communion with God and death and corruption were allowed to enter in to our race. The bible says that the sting of death is sin. We sin because we die. We die because we are out of communion with God. A human is a psychosomatic union which means were are broken in body and soul and that is the explanation for not only disease, but the state of creation in general. In other words, what is "natural" can't be assumed to be good in the sense that God wanted it to be that way originally.
And I do think this idea makes sense in how we experience reality. If we are nothing more than the by-product of an unguided process, then where did we get the strange idea that we as a species should be doing a lot better? I think we have a residual idea of paradise but we know we are kicked out. The natural world has the hints of being "good", but it is also a terrifying thing full of thistle, tooth, and claw.
Oh, and the guy you are being the advocate for is a central character in this process. There really is an evil entity that is the "god of this world" and it engages in deceit and destruction of all the good things God made. In the book of Job, Satan is the one who brings death to Job's family and disease to his body. I think that is a parable of reality albeit I don't think the reality is literally exactly like the story.
It is important to note that there is no "fault" in having same sex desires regardless of what might cause it. Its what we do with what we control that matters. I really don't believe that pedophiles control their urges but we all expect them to not act out on those urges absolutely.