How does Sambo takedowns differ from Wrestling?

Khabib mentioned he's a Sambo guy, but I see him shooting lots of singles and doubles.  How Sambo does that differ from Wrestling when it comes to singles/doubles? 

It's a lot harder to shoot for singles and doubles if you have a jacket on. Your opponent can grab your jacket and stuff your takedown.

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Lazarus - It's a lot harder to shoot for singles and doubles if you have a jacket on. Your opponent can grab your jacket and stuff your takedown.

I mean from a technical point of view. 

From a technical pov: it is a lot harder to shoot for singles and doubles if you have a jacket on... Etc 

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JCMcGee -

From a technical pov: it is a lot harder to shoot for singles and doubles if you have a jacket on... Etc 

Right but thats not really an answer. Aside from wearing a jacket, how is a double leg Technically different in Sambo than in Wrestling?

Bend The Knee -
JCMcGee -

From a technical pov: it is a lot harder to shoot for singles and doubles if you have a jacket on... Etc 

Right but thats not really an answer. Aside from wearing a jacket, how is a double leg Technically different in Sambo than in Wrestling?

It's a lot harder to shoot for singles and doubles if you have a jacket on. Your opponent can grab your jacket and stuff your takedown.

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OP, let's try this...

Since it is harder to shoot for singles and doubles when you have a jacket on, what techniques would you use while shooting to overcome that difficulty?

Lurker99 - OP, let's try this...

Since it is harder to shoot for singles and doubles when you have a jacket on, what techniques would you use while shooting to overcome that difficulty?

I have no idea. Which is what I wanna know. I would personally use the jacket, but that doesn't transfer over to MMA

I practiced at a sambo school and the standup was mostly dirty judo, with a lot more flexibility on grips and so forth. I don't remember people using double leg and single leg takedowns much. Obviously, Khabib's school might be different.

I had a wrestling background and used a lot of forward motion in the beginning. One of the better guys there was a former wrestler and could recognize what I was doing. He took me aside and explained that wrestling was all forward motion, but judo and sambo was the opposite - all pulling. The jacket makes a world of difference. And if you try to shoot on someone while wearing a jacket, they can grab your jacket and stuff your takedown relatively easily.

I suppose if you're fast enough, you could do your single and double leg takedowns anyway, but I suspect that Khabib also wrestled and learned his single leg and double legs while wrestling.

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In sambo there's striking, gloves and a gi top

My understanding is that there isn't one clear syllabus for sambo in Russia, each area or school teaches or focuses on different things. Some focus almost exclusively on judo techs with very little wrestling or ground work. Others are heavily free etc. 

To me Khabib looks much more like a free wrestling influenced sambo fighter whereas fedor is a judo sambo fighter. 

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Denis Kelly -

My understanding is that there isn't one clear syllabus for sambo in Russia, each area or school teaches or focuses on different things. Some focus almost exclusively on judo techs with very little wrestling or ground work. Others are heavily free etc. 


To me Khabib looks much more like a free wrestling influenced sambo fighter whereas fedor is a judo sambo fighter. 

Interesting. When I see Khabib in the middle of the cage I often see your standard wrestling, singles and doubles.


against the cage I know he uses weird trips etc. 


 


But he considers himself a "Sambo" guy...which I don't fully agree with it...(but I guess he knows what he's talking about) lol

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Dagi’s all aspire to wrestle. Judo and sambo are for wrestling washouts. 

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Lazarus - I practiced at a sambo school and the standup was mostly dirty judo, with a lot more flexibility on grips and so forth. I don't remember people using double leg and single leg takedowns much. Obviously, Khabib's school might be different.

I had a wrestling background and used a lot of forward motion in the beginning. One of the better guys there was a former wrestler and could recognize what I was doing. He took me aside and explained that wrestling was all forward motion, but judo and sambo was the opposite - all pulling. The jacket makes a world of difference. And if you try to shoot on someone while wearing a jacket, they can grab your jacket and stuff your takedown relatively easily.

I suppose if you're fast enough, you could do your single and double leg takedowns anyway, but I suspect that Khabib also wrestled and learned his single leg and double legs while wrestling.

So from what you see, is Khabib more of a wrestler based or sambo based? On takedown/scramble/control bases?

Sambo is a kind of wrestling.

The closest I've been to really having an opportunity to train in sambo is that I trained at a very good judo school that got a lot of high level international players and one of the Bulgarian guys explained to me that in places like Russia/Soviet Union, training could be fairly informal sometimes and people from all three arts would often train together, particularly the judo and sambo guys.  In sport, this led to a paradigm shift of sorts in Judo as Soviet players became a force to be reckoned with in Olympic judo because they were countering the traditional bolt upright standup of "Japanese judo" with a bunch of different lifts and pickups, until the Japanese got tired of losing and basically got lower body attacks like singles/doubles banned by appealing for rule changes to the IOC.

 

History lessons aside, I guess probably the main difference is that while more "traditional" wrestling singles and doubles start from positions like a collar and elbow tie (it's very tough to hit good wrestlers with single and doubles out in the open with just speed alone) whereas in sambo, there's different points to grip on the kurtka, so there's a few different setups you can play with (collar drag, sleeve drag, etc) that look a little different with the jacket on versus their wrestling counterparts.  As others have stated, its difficult unless you have great timing, technique, and explosiveness to hit SL/DL once already engaged with the jackets on, so when they do happen in jacketed arts (in my experience) its usually with some upper body setup, or paired with some lower body attack like a foot sweep.  

 

Tough question to answer and I'm having difficulty articulating a helpful answer.  Hopefully this is somewhat helpful. 

 

On Khabib specifically, he might be the best cage grappler in MMA and the best hand fighter on the cage in MMA.   Almost all his fights have him eventually running you into the cage, and then hand fighting and ducking under to get behind you, breaking you down to all fours and then taking back or mount depending on your reaction.   It's like watching a 3 minute long takedown sometimes.  Pair that with the fact that he cuts a gross amount of weight and is so much bigger and stronger than anyone in the LW division, and you essentially have a guy who's takedowns are pretty much unstoppable. 

 

So I 

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Bend The Knee -

Khabib mentioned he's a Sambo guy, but I see him shooting lots of singles and doubles.  How Sambo does that differ from Wrestling when it comes to singles/doubles? 

Khabib's base was frees tyle wrestling, then he moved to judo, then sambo and then combat sambo and MMA.

From what I remember he used lots of upper body throws and suplexes etc in his early fights but gradually moved towards leg attacks 

Jiujitsu guy - 

In sambo there's striking, gloves and a gi top


That's the Combat Sambo version where there is striking.

Sambo is more akin to Judo except with Leglocks [I think Chokes are illegal in Sambo iirc]

Wrestling, Sambo and Judo guys cross train a lot in Russia