how much contact

Underground
1

Hi folks

I'm a karate guy. Yeah yeah, ok stop laughing ;-)

I posted this question on the TMA forum and all those guys must still be at lunch because I've gotten no replies.

I've never done the tippity tappity kind of point sparring everyone agrees is useless. I've always had to make contact (and have contact made against me) for a strike to be acknowledged as having the potential to hurt the other guy.

Go look on bullshido.com for examples of what too little contact will do for you.

But too much contact has its drawbacks too. KO's, concussions, cuts, broken noses-faces-ribs,hands not to mention little bits of brain trauma that accumulate into big trouble. Y'all know the risks. Ya physically can't do that on a weekly basis, can you?

So how do y'all do it? How do you get enough contact in so that you don't get surprised when someone hits you but not so much that you get injured and have to take time off?

Mark

2

Bigger gloves, head protection on the passive side come to mind. On the active side maybe your karate training could be of use, I have a very long karate background too with a lot of pointsparring and while the transfer phase to serious boxing/muay thai was hard, I have a very good sense how to dose my force from that time.

Using excessive force in sparring is part of a bigger picture IMO, i have friends who are sluggers and they get tired real quickly and improve much slower in their technique. Maybe grab the problem by the root and start more technical training with pads and focus mitts for several rounds, once you have the technique down, the slugging should stop since you just dont need to use force. Also remember that when you are sparring really hard all the time, you'll always play a conservative game and never get to really try new things and evolve since that'll just get you hurt. of course you'll also learn that way, but much slower than you could if you went at it relaxed.

my 2 cents :)

3

Well, I don't spar much until a month or two before a fight. When I do spar, me and my partners wear 16 oz gloves, head gear, shin and instep pads. We go full contact but might hold off on full break outs of continous combinations if someone is not defending themselves.

4

juszczec,

you may not know this but in Thailand, they do not beat the crap out of each other! they spar and focus on technique and worry about beating the snot out of someone when they get in the ring..

so spar often! but wear protection and use light - medium contact & control to avoid injury to everyone so you're all able to practice tomorrow.

just my 2 cents..

5

U should spar often but lightly. Go at a pace where if you get hit, its enough to know you got caught but not enough to hurt you. At the perfect pace you should not be afraid to get hit(going to hard), but when you get hit it shouldnt be so soft you get used to walking through shots(going to light).

Like i said before find a pace where you and your put enough pop in your strikes to realize you got caught but are able to spar like that all day without someone getting hurt

6

nosleep

"Bigger gloves, head protection on the passive side come to mind."

What weight gloves do you suggest? Do you need big gloves if you've got boxing headgear?

"On the active side maybe your karate training could be of use,"

chuckle Believe it or not, the folks that got me started didn't believe karate was the end all be all. They said crosstrain because karate won't teach you these things and then gave you a list. They walked the walk as well - because they all had gone out and gotten that training and introduced at least the basics. Really cutting edge for the early 80's.

Anyway I'm a product of that kind of environment.

"I have a very long karate background too with a lot of pointsparring and while the transfer phase to serious boxing/muay thai was hard,"

What was hard about it?

"I have a very good sense how to dose my force from that time."

I don't understand. Are you talking about being able to control the amount of force you use when you smack your training partner?

"i have friends who are sluggers and they get tired real quickly and improve much slower in their technique."

You can throw bombs all the time, but you're right it'll wear you down fast. And yeah, if you are caught up with throwing stuff hard ALL the time then you won't be able to work on the nuances.

"Maybe grab the problem by the root and start more technical training with pads and focus mitts for several rounds, once you have the technique down, the slugging should stop since you just dont need to use force."

At least once a week I do a session on the heavy bag or focus mitts specifically for this purpose - get the delivery right. Then get the delivery fast. Then hit stuff hard.

"Also remember that when you are sparring really hard all the time, you'll always play a conservative game and never get to really try new things and evolve since that'll just get you hurt.

Agreed. I've seen it happen - you can't experiment (unless you are an idiot) when there's a chance you'll get busted in the head.

Mark

7

BadBradBurrick

"Well, I don't spar much until a month or two before a fight."

That's interesting. I find I've got to get at least one workout of nothing but sparring to keep sharp.

"When I do spar, me and my partners wear 16 oz gloves, head gear, shin and instep pads. We go full contact but might hold off on full break outs of continous combinations if someone is not defending themselves."

In other words, if you batter the guy into a bad position AND ya both know there's nothing he can do about it then you stop, dust him off and keep going. Right?

Mark

8

Bull_in_chinashop

"you may not know this but in Thailand, they do not beat the crap out of each other! they spar and focus on technique and worry about beating the snot out of someone when they get in the ring.."

On this forum I did read something like that. About once a month people go more than medium contact AND its often with guys from another gym so you aren't fighting with someone you've gotten used to.

"so spar often! but wear protection and use light - medium contact & control to avoid injury to everyone so you're all able to practice tomorrow."

I get in at least a half hour to an hour of sparring every week. 2 minutes non stop rounds, break when you either catch the guy clean or work him into a bad spot from which he can't recover.

"they spar and focus on technique and worry about beating the snot out of someone when they get in the ring.."

The only reason I ask this is, for me, there's no getting into the ring to beat the snot out of anyone. I'm wondering if I need to change my training to make up for this.

Sounds like maybe I'm doing something right. As long as we go with alot of intensity on a regular, periodic basis.

Mark

9

Somerville Bad Boy

"U should spar often but lightly. Go at a pace where if you get hit, its enough to know you got caught but not enough to hurt you. At the perfect pace you should not be afraid to get hit(going to hard), but when you get hit it shouldnt be so soft you get used to walking through shots(going to light)."

You have described exactly what me and my training partners do. If it doesn't touch enough to feel it (and sometimes even if it does) they keep coming.

"Like i said before find a pace where you and your put enough pop in your strikes to realize you got caught but are able to spar like that all day without someone getting hurt"

I find the legs go first and then the fine motor control. So the brain says "punch him in the nose" and the punch ends up in his eye. Or you start walking into punches and kicks. Or you tell the body to go and it doesn't.

I guess what I'm saying is, eventually my training partners and I find we become a danger to ourselves and others before the pain/injury gets bad enough to quit.

Mark

10

"That's interesting. I find I've got to get at least one workout of nothing but sparring to keep sharp."

Yeah, I don't spar regularlly until before a fight. I find after about four weeks my times and condition is pretty much on.

"In other words, if you batter the guy into a bad position AND ya both know there's nothing he can do about it then you stop, dust him off and keep going. Right?"

Yeah, pretty much. I'll usually back off a bit and ask him if he is ok. I get the Ok and then we return to business.

11

"What weight gloves do you suggest? Do you need big gloves if you've got boxing headgear?"

Tell you the truth i think 12 oz is enough and wearing headgear is gonna make you hit the other guy harder and it's a pain to wear ;) that's not the politically correct answer, which would be: 16 oz gloves and still wear headgear to prevent (even with 16 oz) cuts and swelling.

"What was hard about it?"

Getting hit in the head a lot was hard, and making the nose stop bleeding was kind of a hassle as well, haha.

"I have a very good sense how to dose my force from that time."

"I don't understand. Are you talking about being able to control the amount of force you use when you smack your training partner?"

Yes that's it, we had a very heavy emphasis on technique and control, you know, stop 1 inch from the others face while moving etc. I don't do any of those drills anymore but I still feel that "control" when i spar/train. Especially since I spar a lot with teenagers and children in my class (which is more like play instead of fighting) it's very useful :)

"At least once a week I do a session on the heavy bag or focus mitts specifically for this purpose - get the delivery right. Then get the delivery fast. Then hit stuff hard."

I wasn't referring specifically to you when i said that, just in general and for your training partners since your post sounded like you know what you need but were looking for ideas and opinions.

"Agreed. I've seen it happen - you can't experiment (unless you are an idiot) when there's a chance you'll get busted in the head."

Yeah, sadly some people don't understand that, got such a case in my circle of friends atm... unfortunate and unhealthy mindset.

Sparring is a delicate thing and a lot of it is about trust and not being an asshole, nasty things can happen and ruin your day, bad experiences come 99% from ego and hurt pride, seen it all. I personally don't place such a heavy emphasis on Sparring, it's essential but not more important than any other part of the training.

12

ttt

13

when the guys at my old school would spar me with 12s to my 16s, i'd hit them 4 ozs harder.

stephen

14

Wear sparring gear and don't try to kill LoL. I spar weekly and it only makes me become better.

15

I spar every time I go to the gym. SBB and I train at the same place, and we train maybe 30-40% most of the time. I am ok with banging (and I love to brawl a bit, I honestly need to get punched hard a few times to kind of "wake up" my game a bit, lol.) but I understand completely what stlnl2 is talking about. As long as I know that we're going heavy I'm cool with that, it's when someone decides to suddenly punch/kick/knee me full force out of the blue that I get pissy.

Most of your work should be fairly light, get that techinque smooth. You can bang once every 4 or 5 sessions just to get used to it but you also need to sloooowly work into heavy sparring.