The problem with sport BJJ: The lighter weight classes no longer believe in takedowns. They all double butt-flop like a bunch of sissies. You can't call yourself a "ground fighter" when you can't truly take someone down to the ground. Guard jump in general is kind of stupid.
What we need is a point system that better rewards takedowns and penalizes guard pulling.
Here's my suggestion....
Takedowns:
3 points: When a contestant with control throws the other contestant largely on his back with considerable force and speed.
2 points: When a contestant with control throws the ther contestant but it lacks one of the elements in the 3 point throw.
1 point: When a contestant with control throws the other contestent but it lacks two of the elements in the 3 point throw.
-1 point: When a contestant places themself on the ground for more than 3 seconds. In cases where a person fails a takdown and places either their back, buttocks, side, or have "3 points" (feet, knees, elbows, hands) on the mat for more 3 seconds.
Note: Essentially, whomever touches the ground first will either have a point(s) scored against them or receive a negative point depending on the nature of how they got to the ground. Each time both contestants both stand up the above conditions are reset.
Mat techiques:
4 points: When a contestant achieves mount or back control for 3 seconds.
3 points: When a contestant achieves side sontrol or top turtle control for 3 seconds.
1 point: When a contestant applies a submission technique that requires the other contestant to execute a technique to escape.
Note: There are no points for sweeping someone from guard.Only way to get points off a sweep is to end up up in mount, side, or back on which case you get points for those things, not the sweep per say.
What do you guys think?
Nope. No points. No time. Submission only.
Or, to the death. 
JiuKaraKwonThaiKungDo Master - Nope. No points. No time. Submission only.I don't see this as being successful because running the tourney will be too unpredictable with no time limits.
Or, to the death.
Also, you still get butt flopping.
I'd like to see more points for a takedown that finishes past the guard. But what really is needed is for refs to call stalling and passivity a lot more (e.g. like in Judo). 2 guys who double guard pull should be given 30 secs to actually do something, or else they get penalty points (both of them if neither competitor is doing anything) and are stood back up. And if they repeatedly get penalised, and both end up getting DQ'd for stalling, then so be it.
James
Trichoke7 - The problem with sport BJJ: The lighter weight classes no longer believe in takedowns. They all double butt-flop like a bunch of sissies. You can't call yourself a "ground fighter" when you can't truly take someone down to the ground. Guard jump in general is kind of stupid.
What we need is a point system that better rewards takedowns and penalizes guard pulling.
Here's my suggestion....
Takedowns:
3 points: When a contestant with control throws the other contestant largely on his back with considerable force and speed.<br type="_moz" />
2 points: When a contestant with control throws the ther contestant but it lacks one of the elements in the 3 point throw.
1 point: When a contestant with control throws the other contestent but it lacks two of the elements in the 3 point throw.
-1 point: When a contestant places themself on the ground for more than 3 seconds. In cases where a person fails a takdown and places either their back, buttocks, side, or have "3 points" (feet, knees, elbows, hands) on the mat for more 3 seconds.
Note: Essentially, whomever touches the ground first will either have a point(s) scored against them or receive a negative point depending on the nature of how they got to the ground. Each time both contestants both stand up the above conditions are reset.
Mat techiques:
4 points: When a contestant achieves mount or back control for 3 seconds.
3 points: When a contestant achieves side sontrol or top turtle control for 3 seconds.
1 point: When a contestant applies a submission technique that requires the other contestant to execute a technique to escape.
Note: There are no points for sweeping someone from guard.Only way to get points off a sweep is to end up up in mount, side, or back on which case you get points for those things, not the sweep per say.
What do you guys think? <br type="_moz" />
I like it....plus no advantages for sure.
Why can't we just let it be. If you want to learn self defense then study that. Also you should probably pack two gis everywhere you go in case of altercation. Trying to collar choke a guy in a v neck probably wont work out so well.
If you want to compete and be a world champ, then gear your training toward that. There are plenty of schools for both.
Marcelo has been pulling guard in open weight for years, and there never seemed to be this much controversy. Obviously he isn't going to single leg drysdale, so what else is he going to do beside pull guard. Most people are pretty hip to his arm drag I would assume these days. 
DavidLangsBlackBelt - Marcelo has been pulling guard in open weight for years, and there never seemed to be this much controversy. Obviously he isn't going to single leg drysdale, so what else is he going to do beside pull guard. Most people are pretty hip to his arm drag I would assume these days.
?? Marcelo did single leg Drysdale, although Drysdale got up pretty quick. It was the second single leg attempt that got him darced.
Although I would like to see more emphasis on takedowns in competitive BJJ, I don't really mind the current scoring.
I'd like to see a points system that doesn't create a huge paradox in the top/bottom hierarchy the way the current one does. Also, one that rewards results instead of actions.
What I mean is that it doesn't make sense to give points for sweeps (into the opponent's guard) as long as there is no penalty for sitting/jumping to guard. If you pull guard and sweep without passing, the score should be tied, as you end up in the same position as you gave your opponent earlier by pulling guard. Some people say that the difference is who initiates the action, but then you might as well say that pulling bottom mount (if anybody wants to do that) shouldn't get your opponent 4 points.
By rewarding results instead of actions, I mean that getting to side control by whatever means possible should be considered a guard pass, and getting on top by whatever means possible should be considered a sweep. There are currently several actions in BJJ that put your opponent in an inferior position without receiving any or a sufficient amount of points for it (turtle sweeps, side control and mount reversals, takedowns and sweeps straight into side control), and while some of these may not please the purists, BJJ is about doing what works, and regardless, the opponent should not be able to lose/concede certain positions with impunity.
The latter point is not particularly hard to rectify. The former is a bit trickier. From a lowly blue belt's perspective, there are two possible routes: 1. Count the guard pull as a takedown for the opponent and enforce the stalling rules severely. (Doable, but requires less subjectivity and better reffing.) 2. Do away with both takedown and sweep points, rewarding only the dominant positions themselves. (Making guard bottom a much harder position to score from, while discouraging stalling.)
SUBMISSION ONLY TOURNAMENTS. TAKE AWAY ALL POINTS ESPECIALLY ADVANTAGE POINTS
Shemhazai - I'd like to see a points system that doesn't create a huge paradox in the top/bottom hierarchy the way the current one does. Also, one that rewards results instead of actions.You and I are almost calling for the same thing. My system also awards points for getting turtle control on someone, which I currently can't stand you don't get point for. We also agree that sweeps to guard should not be awarded points. And that you should get points each time you acheive a dominant position.
What I mean is that it doesn't make sense to give points for sweeps (into the opponent's guard) as long as there is no penalty for sitting/jumping to guard. If you pull guard and sweep without passing, the score should be tied, as you end up in the same position as you gave your opponent earlier by pulling guard. Some people say that the difference is who initiates the action, but then you might as well say that pulling bottom mount (if anybody wants to do that) shouldn't get your opponent 4 points.
By rewarding results instead of actions, I mean that getting to side control by whatever means possible should be considered a guard pass, and getting on top by whatever means possible should be considered a sweep. There are currently several actions in BJJ that put your opponent in an inferior position without receiving any or a sufficient amount of points for it (turtle sweeps, side control and mount reversals, takedowns and sweeps straight into side control), and while some of these may not please the purists, BJJ is about doing what works, and regardless, the opponent should not be able to lose/concede certain positions with impunity.
The latter point is not particularly hard to rectify. The former is a bit trickier. From a lowly blue belt's perspective, there are two possible routes: 1. Count the guard pull as a takedown for the opponent and enforce the stalling rules severely. (Doable, but requires less subjectivity and better reffing.) 2. Do away with both takedown and sweep points, rewarding only the dominant positions themselves. (Making guard bottom a much harder position to score from, while discouraging stalling.)
However, I disagree that takedowns shouldn't be awarded points, because getting a takedown is a dominant action. For example, in my 3 point takedwn condition it would really hurt under most conditions but the onlt reason it doesn't here is because you're falling on mats. So, I like to reward slamming someone on their backs because it rewards the ability to deliver some good damage to an opponent under other circumstances.
DavidLangsBlackBelt - Why can't we just let it be. If you want to learn self defense then study that. Also you should probably pack two gis everywhere you go in case of altercation. Trying to collar choke a guy in a v neck probably wont work out so well.
If you want to compete and be a world champ, then gear your training toward that. There are plenty of schools for both.
Marcelo has been pulling guard in open weight for years, and there never seemed to be this much controversy. Obviously he isn't going to single leg drysdale, so what else is he going to do beside pull guard. Most people are pretty hip to his arm drag I would assume these days.
Yes, you can choke someone with any type of shirt. The Gracie's have videos on it. Gi is more "street" than no-gi.
Sir Taps - I'd like to see more points for a takedown that finishes past the guard. But what really is needed is for refs to call stalling and passivity a lot more (e.g. like in Judo). 2 guys who double guard pull should be given 30 secs to actually do something, or else they get penalty points (both of them if neither competitor is doing anything) and are stood back up. And if they repeatedly get penalised, and both end up getting DQ'd for stalling, then so be it.In my system what I would give is the takedown points plus the dominant postion points. So, let's say you get a 3-point takedown and end up in side control, you will get 6 points.
James
- 3 points guard pull
I cant take people down because ive had 3 knee surgerys and a real bad ankle surgery. At my age shooting in for take downs just isnt happening. Its not wrestling and its not a street fight. I love sub only tourneys. Bottom line is if you dont like the rules of one tournament dont compete in it. Theres enough tournaments out there with rules for everyone.
Let them pull guard. It's doing me a favor. Allow one strike to face if they butt flop. People need to know BJJ is a combat sport.
swiftnhbfighter - I cant take people down because ive had 3 knee surgerys and a real bad ankle surgery. At my age shooting in for take downs just isnt happening. Its not wrestling and its not a street fight. I love sub only tourneys. Bottom line is if you dont like the rules of one tournament dont compete in it. Theres enough tournaments out there with rules for everyone.
There are no touney's out there for what I'm proposing. Kosen Judo is the closest thing, but I've never heard of Kosen rules being used today.
Puling guard is only -1 point, you'd just have to eat it. Can't keep in sissy guard pulling just because there's a very small % of people out there like you who have a legit reason for doing it.
elitecmbt - Let them pull guard. It's doing me a favor. Allow one strike to face if they butt flop. People need to know BJJ is a combat sport.Opponent pulling guard is not favorable to you, according to statistical analysis of BJJ matches.
To me it is. I fight for top position. That's my game. If someone pulls guard, they gave me what I wanted.
elitecmbt - To me it is. I fight for top position. That's my game. If someone pulls guard, they gave me what I wanted. <img src="/images/phone/droid.png" alt="Phone Post" border="0" style="vertical-align:middle;"/>
yup.. me too
I don't think you need to penalise pulling guard, just penalise inactivity. So if I pull guard and then just sit there looking at my opponent, I should be penalised. But if I pull guard and start attacking immediately, then all good.
James