No, not another Rickson exploitation thread. Instead, pretty much every top Jiu Jitsu guy from the Gracie's to other ADCC champions have said Rickson "taps them easily". Now, respectfully please, have the top new guys like Garcia passed up Rickson or do they go down there and get tapped like the others? Seriously, does anyone have realistic data on this? Thanks in advance.
Rickson by armbar 1:27 Round 1.
After the pan am's it was reported that rickson was seen tapping garcia at his academy with one hand in his belt, 1 foot tied to the other and a blinf fold on. So i heard...
Ha ha , Rickson by Armbar, the biggest cliche on the forum. But seriously, have the new guys passed up Rickson. Seems the jiu jitsu world would know. Not too long ago since Gurgel, all Gracies, Riberio and other ADCC champs said Rickson was "on another level". Is this still true or has the game finally passed him?
"After the pan am's it was reported that rickson was seen tapping garcia at his academy with one hand in his belt"
That's mildly amusing but guys like Gurgel said he really did do this to top BJJ black belts. Is it not possible to discuss Rickson's skill level at BJJ without hyperbole? I'd like to hear how this match would go from someone who's near the level of these guys. Actually surpassing Rickson at BJJ is a huge deal, like passing Montana or Unitas at QB or Jordan at shooting guard. If it has happened, those in the know are interested.
Rickson all the way,still.
Honestly - it is sadly impossible to discuss Rickson's jiu-jitsu without hyperbole - since all of his accomplishments are pretty much composed of hearsay.
"Honestly - it is sadly impossible to discuss Rickson's jiu-jitsu without hyperbole - since all of his accomplishments are pretty much composed of hearsay. "
This is the most widely used argument against Rickson's skills, but it strikes me as a bit like the "we never landed on the moon" argument.
What kind of proof do you want ? He is not competing, but in fact, many, many people have rolled with Rickson. He is not a hermit. All of the them tell the same story. Is it all a vast "black belt" conspiracy in which all top practitioners agreeing to create a legend ?
Perhaps EGM means that he has never rolled with Rickson himself. However, even if EGM were tapped by Rickson, he would simply say that any black belt would tap him, so how can he judge. The answer is that the way to Judge is through what other respected black belts have said first-hand. First-hand, by the way means "not hearsay."
margarida is one of the current top guys. rickson played with him like all the rest of them, so there's your answer i guess.
Very recently, Crosley Gracie and an American Blackbelt - the name is escaping me for the moment) added their names to the list. This is not secondhand or hearsay. Ask them ?!
hunglikeahorse, very funny.
marcelo is a phenom. the kid is simply amazing. probably the most talented guy out there right now. would he tap rickson, i highly doubt it. the possibility of him beating rickson on points is definitely possible. if jacare can catch marcelo, than i have no doubts that rickson would be able to as well.
i guess we all forget that rickson is 47 years old. are there any other guys that age that could even hang with marcelo? i doubt it.
You can find out how good Rickson is by simply going to his school and challenging him to a submission grappling match. Obviously, however, that wouldn't prove how great Rickson is --just how much you suck.
Seriously, though, the numerous world-class level black belts that have been consistently humbled by Rickson is objective evidence on how great a bjj'r he is.
Perhaps it's a fair question to ask whether he would be dominant in ADCC or the Mundials; unfortunately, it's a question that will probably never get answered.
I guess that means you can go on hating.
As for me, I pick Rickson by water bottle.
Sorry man - for me it's hearsay unless I actually see Rickson tap all these blackbelts - I especially don't place any validity in other Gracies saying he is "unstoppable". It's a great marketing ploy. Rickson won his fair share of BJJ tournaments when he was youunger (all of which are on record) - but he is now older and I seriously doubt the younger crop of grapplers would all mysteriously fall to him.
I don't need to roll with him - I just need to actually see him do something - which we won't, so why deal in hypotheticals...
But to answer the question. In no-gi, my money would be on Marcelo.
Due to years of brainwashing at the hands of my Gracie family instructors, I would pick Rickson to win against just about anyone (except for Fedor, who is a cyborg sent by the future to find Sarah Conner).
Rickson is awesome at BJJ we all know that. But the level today is MUCH, MUCH better than in Rickson's day.
ADCC is a 'small league event' so rickson wouldn't join it
Your criticisms are more or less valid, although you seem to be taking my post a little more seriously than I intended.
To be clear, I don't disagree with your point that, even assuming that Rickson was once dominant in bjj/subgrappling, his skills have probably atrophied since then. Nor do I disagree with your argument that it's (poor) speculation that Rickson would dominate the likes of Roger, Jacare, or Marcello when he hasn't competed in years.
What I do disagree with is your dismissal of the stories regarding Rickson's more or less recent domination of Nino, Margarida and other highly-regarded bjj black belts. If nothing else, that should tell you that Rickson is still training on a very high level.
As for doubting whether those stories are true, it seems to me that the truth has always come out in these situations. If such stories were false, I would have expected that the person or one of their students would have dispelled such rumours by now. I guess that doesn't add up to definitive proof, but we're not in court.
You could always call all the guys that Rickson has supposedly handled and ask them how good they think he is. I hope that you'll let us know how that works out.
"No, it doesn't. Because stories from years ago don't prove who is best today. A couple years ago Marcelo and Roger gracie weren't regarded as 2 of the best, yet today they are. Things change. Rickson may have been the greatest at one point, but eventually he will get surpassed."
El Guapo, I always respect your posts and you've made some good points. But suppose jiu jitsu is like the BJJ experts maintain it is, namely that size and strength (and thus age) aren't hugely important. Presupposing this, couldn't Rickson keep improving well into his 40's and beyond until he had some real physical limitations? If this is true, then couldn't he be BETTER than he was 10 years ago when he could tap anyone at will? Just speculation but the premise seems at least plausable, right?
And the fact that Gurgel, Margarita and others admit they can't touch him today may be more than mere respect. You're right that Kobe passed Jordan yet still said he was the best and surely people respect Rickson this way. But if Margarita went in there and tapped Rickson, we'd know he tapped him even though Margarita would have claimed Rickson was the best ever. Yet he apparently was tapped quite easily by Rickson. As was Jacare, the guy who tapped Garcia this weekend. I admit, the thought of a legend who keeps getting better is romantic and appealing, but its also feasable given the nature of jiu jitsu. There must be a reason all the top current guys go in there and say Rickson beats them handily. Just food for thought :-)