Kerr finished third in the US trails behind Coleman nd Angle the year Angle won the gold medal, I don’t Severn ever placed anywhere near that at Olympic trials
Severn was taken down and mounted by Barnett. Barnett was taken down and submitted by Kerr.
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People revere Enson here but he had a low fight IQ imo. I’d pick Royce to win
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I admire the faith that many of you have in Royce.
Seeing him fight changed my life and gave me my job the last 25 years.
Having said that…. I’m sure by the time kerr stepped in the cage in 97 he had at least alittle knowledge of how to escape basic subs from guard. That would be enough for him to rip Royce limb from limb.
Severn was almost too much for Royce years before and Dan had never seen a triangle. And Dan wasn’t as good a wrestler as kerr, not even close to as strong (due to marks extensive supplement program) and Dan admits he was already passed his prime.
Mark was 268. Like 5% fat. Benching over 500 with cardio.
Kerr back then beats most super heavies in the ufc now (thanx for nothin usada).
Let alone a guy that’s 180lbs wet with little wrestling or striking.
I’d be rooting for Royce.
But mark would’ve put Royce in a can opener and force Royce’s head up his own ass.
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Yep. I still have my VHS tapes somewhere of these ADCC matches around 2000. Boring as hell to watch, but showed once a wrestler has a good grasp of BJJ, it was going to be very difficult submit him even for top Black Belts. So usually they control top, and as long as they avoid the submission, then win by points.
Think I still have the classic Mario Sperry instructional around that time too. There was not a lot of stuff out there around 2000 yet.
Now the wrestler would get tapped fast cause bjj advanced way beyond 98. But yeah back then when bjj bottom was 98% basic classes guard a great wrestler with blue belt bjj skill could beat blacks.
Now, the adcc level by gets with go to butterfly and leglock or sweep them with ease
there are those closeted homosexuals that took steroids to gain acceptance and to compensate for their hilariously obvious issues .
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You make some really good points, but two things you are not talking about I think would play a huge factor in the topic of Royce vs Kerr.
I think Royce vs Kerr, is referring to a fight, not an ADCC match.
Are there similarities we can bring up to make points for argument? For sure, and you pretty much have hit them.
But going back to my original point and bringing up a new point to expand on my first one…toughness.
We all agree Kerr out physiques/out muscles Royce. But Kerr, when confronted with adversity, would fold. You are acting like Prime Kerr cannot hypothetically face adversity because prime Kerr did not face adversity. But when the going got tough for Royce, whether it’s prime Royce or past his prime Royce, Royce would not fold.
So, if you agree that toughness can be a factor like physique/strength can be a factor, then let me talk about how ADCC and cage fighting can make a difference.
ADCC, you score points. You can stall. You can ride the clock out for a win knowing you got a takedown and are up on points.
In UFC, the Royce UFC, there was no decision wins. It was a fight to the finish. Kerr most definitely would have taken Royce down. Kerr would also be limited to how he could finish Royce.
The longer that fight goes, the more it favors Royce. Royce’s best chance to finish, is going to be from the ground where he already proved, in a cage, he can submit big strong guys.
When it comes to cage fighting, how much credit are we giving Fabio Gurgel(3-2) who 1997 Kerr could not finish? Fabio cut Kerr up and Fabio is not nearly as crafty as Royce nor nearly as proven, yet he gave prime Kerr trouble and Kerr was huffing and puffing before the end.
1997 “Prime” Kerr face 1-6 Morti Horenstein. How much credit goes into this victory to increase the fearsomeness of Mark Kerr?
Dan Bobish was a tough fighter but the eye in the chin was not common and I don’t think that would come into play against Royce. No one is claiming Bobish to have been proven on the ground so while I view this as a credible win for Kerr, I don’t think it says much about a hypothetical match up with Royce who had toughness/cardio/submissions off his back
1997 Prime Kerr face 0-1 Greg Stott. 5 feet 7 inches tall, no fights prior or after. How much submission defense does this win give Kerr?
1997 Prime Kerr faced the ever popular Dwayne Cason, record of 1-1. How much credit does Kerr get for this opponent?
1998 Prime Kerr faced the dangerous debuting fighter of Branko Cikatic who finished his career at 0-2.
1998 Prime Kerr faced Pedro Otavio who wasn’t a well known fighter or highly respected but he had a respectable record but zero wrestling and was a striker, not a ground specialist.
1999 Prime Kerr faced Takada, who Royce Gracie would also beat his next fight.
Now, does all of a sudden, “Prime” Kerr go from “Prime” Kerr to old and “past his prime” Kerr?
Or does Kerr start facing actual tough competition, where from this point on he would go 4 wins and 12 losses?
Sure Kerr was past his prime when he faced Oleg Taktorov in the cage, but so was Oleg. However what they both brought to the table, was still their strengths. Oleg’s best attribute=toughness. Kerr’s best attribute=size/strength. How did this fight play out? The same way Royce vs “Prime” Kerr would have played out, granting that it’s a “Prime” Royce who is facing “Prime” Kerr.
The guys undersized Royce Gracie was beating-
Another big guy Remco Pardoel
Another big guy undersized Royce Gracie faced-
All of these legit, bigger, stronger opponents all had one thing in common. Their toughness and submission defense was not enough to beat Royce Gracie.
But because Mark Kerr dominated guys he should have dominated, like…
Allowing strikes means more opportunities for Royce. Kerr can’t lay on Royce and get a decision win when the rules are fight to the finish.
If the rules are time limit, yes, I can see Kerr establishing momentum and riding the clock out to get a decision. But when it comes to really determining who the better fighter is, where one fighter’s mind or body quits, you have not convinced me and upon further looking into “Prime Kerr’s” opponents, I’m actually more convinced Royce Gracie would be able to beat yet another big strong wrestler as he already did, multiple times prior.
Again, Oleg was arguably more past his prime than Kerr was as Oleg was fighting during Royce’s time period. Oleg was in the same tournaments Royce Gracie was winning, and Oleg was never known to be as offensive with his subs as Royce Gracie was.
Mark Kerr comes into the fight looking like this, which makes the odds makers smile-
But Mark Kerr leaves the fight, looking like this-
Royce Gracie enters the fight looking like this-
And leaves the fight, looking like this-
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Coleman who has trained with both said kerr win the fight
however Coleman was biased he did not like ken
Coleman says he destroyed Ken training yet the rest of the lions dead said that ken destroy Coleman in training
Royce got worked by some little Japanese guy named Tokoda or something in K1 MMA. Cant even remember the guys name. Its a joke to think he could handle Kerr lol. He couldnt handle random 145’ers.
Uh, you ever watch any of those fights of Dan’s?! There are plenty of rookie and novice fighters in his win column.
Kerr had a much better understanding of bjj and was juiced to the teets.
Royce couldn’t handle Sakuraba and almost died fighting Kimo but you want to believe he would have been fine against Kerr
Nick Rodriguez took second in ADCC in 2019 as a blue belt wrestler with a year of BJJ.
Kerr vs Gurgel World Vale Tudo Championship
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Outstanding!!
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do u know how many of those severn fights were fake?
check the lytes out podcast on dan
Watching this fight, I’d say Royce probably would’ve fared worse than Gurgel against this 97 Kerr. Gurgel is bigger and a Mundial champion. If it was no time limit, then maybe I’d give Royce a chance to catch him in a submission, that is if the headbutts don’t cause a fight stoppage due to too much bleeding. Royce has much better heart and grit than Kerr; a long match with no time limit would be his best shot.
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Knees to a downed opponent need to be added to the UFC.
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Royce would have held his own against Kerr.
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Plus that Gurgel fight was Kerr’s third fight of the night and that night itself was his NHB/MMA debut.
Kerr was so green.
In the first round he had to fight Varelans. Varelans had already been fighting pro a couple years and it took Ruas and Vovchanchyn a combined 18 minutes to get him out of there even though they were NHB vets with a lot more experience than Kerr. Took Kerr two minutes to finish that fight in his 1st pro fight. Kerr had very little BJJ or MMA training under his belt when he went out there and beat Gurgel. Gurgel’s had taken his first vale tudo fight six years prior to that and had already been in there with Bohlander and Pat Smith.
Alger or Gracie?
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