The best and most interesting episode yet!
leather necks = devil dogs = US Marines = Real Badass Killersip
I loved it when the instructor said:
"Put me in a cage with Randy Couture, and he'll definitely whip my a**. Put Randy Couture in this environment against me, and he dies."
Opened my eyes on how martial arts are used in the military.
The bayonet stuff was awesome! The improvised weapons part resembled a lot of FMA stuff.
"Opened my eyes on how martial arts are used in the military."
You won't believe what "fantasy" systems some of these elite military units are using in their training.
You'd be surprised. ;)
Hey, you coming to CT for the Savate Seminar? A whole bunch of us are driving up (3 of my students are doing their glove test, plus this forum's own TwinkletoesCT!). Sama ka na, pare!
Really? What fantasy based art? Bad Wing Chun? Bad FMA? Lots of trapping? hehehe.
I doubt if I can make it that weekend. Its crunch time in the restaurant business. Sorry bro. =(
Siciliano:
Can't say, but it's "fantasy-based." Apparently used frequently (and with high degree of success) by room clearing units in Iraq.
It's been deemed non-functional for years, so imagine my surprise when this was related to me. shrugs
If it's high degree of success, how come it's "fantasy-based" then? I don't get it.
^^^Beats me.
LOL! Dude! Stop sounding like Yoda and give me a straight answer. What's your definition of "Fantasy" based?
^^^All those dead arts that smartmonkey listed. Aikido, silat, wing chun, etc.
I don't have a definition of fantasy-based actually. :(
I only have a definition of what works for me.
As a former member of the Army I can tell you the vast majority of the Martial Arts taught in the Military is to this day quite bad, and usually about 20 Years behind the times. Much like a great deal of LE training still is.
However, without giving anything away . .I can tell you the more elite units of our Armed forces are certainly coming up to speed rapidly. And thanks to a lot of hard work by good Officers pushing hard for updated curriculums and very smart LE pioneers, so is the Law Enforcement community.
One step at a time.
Oh dear me! Not another SBG vs JKDC guys debate.
** Grabs six pack and chicharon **
Let's just talk about the episode please. Any comments? Haven't seen the Krav Maga or FMA stuff yet. How did they go?
Not trying to hijak your thread here Siciliano. Since my name was invoked I offered my actual opinion. By all means, carry on.
Go Army.
Water wrestling (the drowning stuff) seemed so much fun. Seems like there was a lot of judo gi-maneuvers involved.
The 2 on 1 or multiple opponent scenarios showed how real encounters happen in the battlefield.
I'm still not into the war or that idiot President Bush, but watching this made me objectively respect the Marines as serious and determined combatants. Their combat mindset/mentality is what sets them apart from the rest.
Marines, not Army.
"As a former member of the Army I can tell you the vast majority of the Martial Arts taught in the Military is to this day quite bad, and usually about 20 Years behind the times. Much like a great deal of LE training still is."--So what do you suggest?
I don't know, to me, I see it that these guys are Professional Warriors fighting not in a cage or on a mat but preparing to fight in an unforgiving environment encumbered by heavy clothing and gear, fighting against an opponent who wants to take their life, not tap them out.
I did not see anything "fantasy" but saw professional warriors training an aggressive mindset designed to teach them to KILL another person. That's just my humble opinion. I'm a civilian though and have no business telling Warriors how to fight a WAR.
So what do you suggest?
I would suggest that these soldiers who risk their lives daily deserve nothing less then the most functional and updated hand to hand combat training available.
When I served the majority of the hand to hand training soldiers recieved was minumal at best. And that included the combat MOS's as well as the more elite services. It was just not a high priority when compared to firearms, tactics, navigation and conditioning. Most of the curriculum was Karate based, with a few Judo hip throws, and poorly taught chokes. That has since been updated to some degree thanks to the Gracies. However, as I mentioned above it is still well behind the times. The current forces are now being asked to perform MOUT (urban/ city based conflict) tactics on a daily basis. Which was a task that used to be specialized to units trained specificly for that. Now due to this war even National Guardsman are playing roles that would otherwise be served by highly trained law enforcement SERT team personal. This makes the need for better hand to hand training service wide even greater.
To be clear I have no doubt that certain specific units are training in some highly functional up to date curriculums. In fact I know they are. However to change something service wide means dealing with a huge bureaucracy, and a lot of paper pushing. On the positive note, I am aware of some very skilled Coaches and service members who are working very hard to do just that. And that is a good thing.
Umm... Couture was in the army, no? That's a rather odd example to give as I'd expect he'd have the same training as anyone else...
Well, the comment is not so surprising as the person who said it was a Marine.
I have a lot of students from the Army and Airforce here in Korea, and even a few Marines. I also taught SWAT guys back home. They all are potentially in a lot more danger than your average civilian, but don't make the mistake of believing that they as individuals or their branches of the service as institutions are all that concerned about what a special forces friend of mine jokingly refers to as "hand to gland combat". Certain individuals are very skilled and diligent, but they most often get those skills in private civilian gyms while their buddies--the one's who will have to back them up in combat-- smoke two packs a day and drink Jack Daniels "down range".
John
"I would suggest that these soldiers who risk their lives daily deserve nothing less then the most functional and updated hand to hand combat training available."--I agree.
"However, as I mentioned above it is still well behind the times"--I disagree. This was not my impression from viewing the program. Although I'm sure the military would love to have a group of elite martial artist supersoldiers like Captian America who could take on armed nazis and dispatch them without weapons it's not going to happen. The goal is not to create UFC champions but to create Warriors.
In order to do that they must have a program that is easily learned and taught to a huge number of people. This is what I saw, so I really can't see a problem.
Matt, as a civilian, if I wanted to learn to defend myself from civilian threats, I'd love to train with you. On the other hand, if I were a going into combat 1 year from now, then a combat military curriculm taught by those with experience in combat would suit my needs. Luckily, I can just sit here in my favorite armchair giving my expert opinions but if I go to Wal-Mart and get attacked I may be giving you a call Matt!
I really can't see a problem
Neither do a lot of the decision makers. Which is exactly why many of the soldiers serious about the topic seek out additional training outside the military structure, as John mentioned.
Regards self defense, stay out of Wal Mart . . . they are not healthy places to be regardless.