I don’t understand the Ukraine phone call issue

banco - 
KZTT_MMAfan55 - 
banco -
Wylong06 -
banco -

Quid quo pro

We're still going with this lie eh?


What's the lie? Ukranian guy says they need javelins and trump then asks for favors.



Except it was revealed that the Ukranians had no idea that military aid was held up until a month after the phone call. 


So no quid pro quo clearly




I don't see how that helps Trump. Arguably it hurts him. Ukraine needs ongoing assistance with their war with Russia and is heavily dependent on US aid and tony soprano asks for a favor. Nobody has to spell out anything.



Because it shows there was no quid pro quo. Both sides need to understand and come to an agreement on terms of said contract. If your claiming Ukraine didn't know that not investigating what happened "with Biden" meant no aid than there is no quid pro quo. Which there wasn't anyhow or at least directly i.e "I'll give you this, if you give me that"


Simply stating that "we need missiles" and then 15 minutes later Trump stating he would like something investigated isn't enough to suggest a quid pro quo exists. 

JonJonesBone -
b.d. -
ChiefMac -

Wots wrong with asking another country to investigate potential illegal activity? I would have no issue with democrats asking other administrations to investigate potential illegal goings on with their opposition either.

as long as it's the truth that comes out, surely it's a good thing to have this information in the light. 
could someone explain why the fuck anyone it's considered a crime to ask for information?

whole things confusing. I watch a bit of Ben Shapiro & he's convinced the call is a big nothing sandwich...meanwhile I also watch a bit of late night talk shows like jimmy kimmel, and he would have u believe it's the most damning evidence ever. How can the same transcript be interpreted so differently. 
Im not from America land so a lot of my info is taken from twitter and YouTube clips tbh. 

Getting your "news" from right wing shills or from youtube is part and parcel why someone wouldn't "understand" what's going on with the inquiry. 

Mayhaps you'd be better served getting "news" from dedicated news outlets. Do like the intelligent folks do and read some news, from a few different sources, and then make your own decisions about who did what and when.

Or ask here in the echo chamber that has become the OG and continue being confused. 


Yeah like CNN, MSNBC etc. That's a good place to start



No, strawman, it isn't. It's the flip side of the same shitty coin as fox news. You know, where right wing potato heads get their talking points and marching orders.

David@accu -
banco - 
KZTT_MMAfan55 - 
banco -
Wylong06 -
banco -

Quid quo pro

We're still going with this lie eh?


What's the lie? Ukranian guy says they need javelins and trump then asks for favors.



Except it was revealed that the Ukranians had no idea that military aid was held up until a month after the phone call. 


So no quid pro quo clearly




I don't see how that helps Trump. Arguably it hurts him. Ukraine needs ongoing assistance with their war with Russia and is heavily dependent on US aid and tony soprano asks for a favor. Nobody has to spell out anything.



Because it shows there was no quid pro quo. Both sides need to understand and come to an agreement on terms of said contract. If your claiming Ukraine didn't know that not investigating what happened "with Biden" meant no aid than there is no quid pro quo. Which there wasn't anyhow or at least directly i.e "I'll give you this, if you give me that"


Simply stating that "we need missiles" and then 15 minutes later Trump stating he would like something investigated isn't enough to suggest a quid pro quo exists. 



There's an ongoing relationship. If you are in a business relationship and the stronger party asks the weaker party for a favor it might not be tied to anything specific but obviously the weaker party will try to help out to maintain the relationship in the ecpectation of future benefits. 


 


I think you know this and are just playing dumb.

TheDecider -
ChiefMac -

Wots wrong with asking another country to investigate potential illegal activity? I would have no issue with democrats asking other administrations to investigate potential illegal goings on with their opposition either.

as long as it's the truth that comes out, surely it's a good thing to have this information in the light. 
could someone explain why the fuck anyone it's considered a crime to ask for information?

whole things confusing. I watch a bit of Ben Shapiro & he's convinced the call is a big nothing sandwich...meanwhile I also watch a bit of late night talk shows like jimmy kimmel, and he would have u believe it's the most damning evidence ever. How can the same transcript be interpreted so differently. 
Im not from America land so a lot of my info is taken from twitter and YouTube clips tbh. 

Your description of the event is a little off.  The President attempted to enlist a foreign power to go after a political rival. 


"The president attempted to go after a foreign rival is what he wanted to do"....


 


Listen to Schiff. He made up a completely farcical statement, read it live to all of the us via our media, and represented his statements to be direct from our president. Adam Shift told a fictional story and misrepresented it.

b.d. -
ChiefMac -

Wots wrong with asking another country to investigate potential illegal activity? I would have no issue with democrats asking other administrations to investigate potential illegal goings on with their opposition either.

as long as it's the truth that comes out, surely it's a good thing to have this information in the light. 
could someone explain why the fuck anyone it's considered a crime to ask for information?

whole things confusing. I watch a bit of Ben Shapiro & he's convinced the call is a big nothing sandwich...meanwhile I also watch a bit of late night talk shows like jimmy kimmel, and he would have u believe it's the most damning evidence ever. How can the same transcript be interpreted so differently. 
Im not from America land so a lot of my info is taken from twitter and YouTube clips tbh. 

Getting your "news" from right wing shills or from youtube is part and parcel why someone wouldn't "understand" what's going on with the inquiry. 

Mayhaps you'd be better served getting "news" from dedicated news outlets. Do like the intelligent folks do and read some news, from a few different sources, and then make your own decisions about who did what and when.

Or ask here in the echo chamber that has become the OG and continue being confused. 


Why are you putting random words in speech marks? 
I never said I was strictly getting my news from those sources. I just said that I've seen these commentators on both sides of the fence interpret the exact same transcript wildly differently. 
also, it's not my country so I don't follow your official news channels closely...however, let's not pretend that your proper news channels aren't entirely bias anyway. Fox has Ben shapiro on as a commentator frequently and CNN is no different than a jimmy kimmel monologue from what I've seen. 
I also don't see the problem in using YouTube for news, you can see the exact clips that are on TV from any outlet you want, and a lot more. 

There is this...


"To the Senate of the United States: With a view to receiving the advice and consent of the Senate to ratification, I transmit herewith the Treaty Between the United States of America and Ukraine on Mutual Legal Assistance in Criminal Matters with Annex, signed at Kiev on July 22, 1998. I transmit also, for the information of the Senate, an exchange of notes which was signed on September 30, 1999, which provides for its provisional application, as well as the report of the Department of State with respect to the Treaty. The Treaty is one of a series of modern mutual legal assistance treaties being negotiated by the United States in order to counter criminal activities more effectively. The Treaty should be an effective tool to assist in the prosecution of a wide variety of crimes, including drug trafficking offenses. The Treaty is self-executing. It provides for a broad range of cooperation in criminal matters. Mutual assistance available under the Treaty includes: taking of testimony or statements of persons; providing documents, records, and articles of evidence; serving documents; locating or identifying persons; transferring persons in custody for testimony or other purposes; executing requests for searches and seizures; assisting in proceedings related to restraint, confiscation, forfeiture of assets, restitution, and collection of fines; and any other form of assistance not prohibited by the laws of the requested state. I recommend that the Senate give early and favorable consideration to the Treaty and give its advice and consent to ratification."?
WILLIAM J. CLINTON.?

b.d. -
ChiefMac -

Wots wrong with asking another country to investigate potential illegal activity? I would have no issue with democrats asking other administrations to investigate potential illegal goings on with their opposition either.

as long as it's the truth that comes out, surely it's a good thing to have this information in the light. 
could someone explain why the fuck anyone it's considered a crime to ask for information?

whole things confusing. I watch a bit of Ben Shapiro & he's convinced the call is a big nothing sandwich...meanwhile I also watch a bit of late night talk shows like jimmy kimmel, and he would have u believe it's the most damning evidence ever. How can the same transcript be interpreted so differently. 
Im not from America land so a lot of my info is taken from twitter and YouTube clips tbh. 

Getting your "news" from right wing shills or from youtube is part and parcel why someone wouldn't "understand" what's going on with the inquiry. 

Mayhaps you'd be better served getting "news" from dedicated news outlets. Do like the intelligent folks do and read some news, from a few different sources, and then make your own decisions about who did what and when.

Or ask here in the echo chamber that has become the OG and continue being confused. 


Yes, the mainstream news that called Trump Manchurian candidate for Russia. Fuck you're stupid.

Ill Portents - 
choadler - 
TheDecider -
ChiefMac -

Wots wrong with asking another country to investigate potential illegal activity? I would have no issue with democrats asking other administrations to investigate potential illegal goings on with their opposition either.

as long as it's the truth that comes out, surely it's a good thing to have this information in the light. 
could someone explain why the fuck anyone it's considered a crime to ask for information?

whole things confusing. I watch a bit of Ben Shapiro & he's convinced the call is a big nothing sandwich...meanwhile I also watch a bit of late night talk shows like jimmy kimmel, and he would have u believe it's the most damning evidence ever. How can the same transcript be interpreted so differently. 
Im not from America land so a lot of my info is taken from twitter and YouTube clips tbh. 

Your description of the event is a little off.  The President attempted to enlist a foreign power to go after a political rival. 


"The president attempted to go after a foreign rival is what he wanted to do"....


 


Listen to Schiff. He made up a completely farcical statement, read it live to all of the us via our media, and represented his statements to be direct from our president. Adam Shift told a fictional story and misrepresented it.




Schiff's opening statement was ridiculous and a colossal blunder imo. He did not misrepresent them to be direct from the president, though, he said it was what Trump said "in essence". Still stupid.


The actual quotes from the "transcript" Trump released are more than damning enough.





LOL

No, they aren't.


Let's listen to all the phone calls of all the Presidents going back to the existence of phone technology.


You would probably find more reason than this to impeach all of them.


The amount of specific scrutiny Trump is subjected to, is both unjustified and unjust.
Its asinine.

OP.  Smack yourself in the head with a hammer a few times and inject massive amounts of estrogen.  That may put you in enough of a libreral mindset, that you can read into it the way they can.

Ill Portents - 
onepunchJD -
Ill Portents - 
choadler - 
TheDecider -
ChiefMac -

Wots wrong with asking another country to investigate potential illegal activity? I would have no issue with democrats asking other administrations to investigate potential illegal goings on with their opposition either.

as long as it's the truth that comes out, surely it's a good thing to have this information in the light. 
could someone explain why the fuck anyone it's considered a crime to ask for information?

whole things confusing. I watch a bit of Ben Shapiro & he's convinced the call is a big nothing sandwich...meanwhile I also watch a bit of late night talk shows like jimmy kimmel, and he would have u believe it's the most damning evidence ever. How can the same transcript be interpreted so differently. 
Im not from America land so a lot of my info is taken from twitter and YouTube clips tbh. 

Your description of the event is a little off.  The President attempted to enlist a foreign power to go after a political rival. 


"The president attempted to go after a foreign rival is what he wanted to do"....


 


Listen to Schiff. He made up a completely farcical statement, read it live to all of the us via our media, and represented his statements to be direct from our president. Adam Shift told a fictional story and misrepresented it.




Schiff's opening statement was ridiculous and a colossal blunder imo. He did not misrepresent them to be direct from the president, though, he said it was what Trump said "in essence". Still stupid.


The actual quotes from the "transcript" Trump released are more than damning enough.





LOL

No, they aren't.


Let's listen to all the phone calls of all the Presidents going back to the existence of phone technology.


You would probably find more reason than this to impeach all of them.


The amount of specific scrutiny Trump is subjected to, is both unjustified and unjust.
Its asinine.

"But what about those other presidents and what I imagine they might have said???"


 


God damn, whataboutism reaches new heights. Congrats dude. 





No.


It's common sense.


All the conversations all the presidents have had on a weekly basis with world leaders.... and it's obvious there would be some dubious quotes in there somewhere.

Problem is -- we dont have all of those transcripts.

Therefore, it's not fair to Trump.

Period.
The debate is over before it begins.


PLUS -- the actual transcript of the Trump conversation doesn't show anything dubious anyways.
This is common knowledge.

Everyone knows -- the left included -- that this is another hail-Mary from the left to perpetuate negative publicity in the news cycles leading up to the election.


The mass-hypnosis and tribal immature emotional response since the Trump election -- has been one of the most purely and blatantly unjust occurrences in American history.

Again, all of this is indisputable to anyone being intellectually honest.


It's just another play in the never ending coup that is the lefts desperation play.

Trump has every right to be upset, and every right to call this what it is.


You and those like you are bad for this country.
You are un-American, and either directly or indirectly against healthy family values.


The people who hate Trump more than they love America, are the true deplorables here.

And Trump gets on my fucking nerves at times -- believe me.
Believe me.


Bit he has done nothing that warrants the coup.
Nothing that warrants the witch Hunt.


Bunch of overly PC faggots...

Onepunch.I don't think it's fair to just say it's not a big deal and people who think it is are faggots or unanmerican.

 

Republicans seem pretty split. Fox news is hammering Trump too. It's not cut and dry.

 

If past presidents had acted like this it would be now unclassified and there would be records. I don't believe any past presidents have used aid to get personal favors from other leaders. 

 

 

Thelonious -

Onepunch.I don't think it's fair to just say it's not a big deal and people who think it is are faggots or unanmerican.

 

Republicans seem pretty split. Fox news is hammering Trump too. It's not cut and dry.

 

If past presidents had acted like this it would be now unclassified and there would be records. I don't believe any past presidents have used aid to get personal favors from other leaders. 

 

 

You were all good until you had to include the conjecture.  Personal favor.  Thanks for playing though.  

The only way to understand this is to tune in to a media figure that you always agree with.  They will tell you what to think, and then you can join one of the two sides on the issue.

its nonsense just like the rest of allegations against Trump. treason

bluebelt4ever -
b.d. -
ChiefMac -

Wots wrong with asking another country to investigate potential illegal activity? I would have no issue with democrats asking other administrations to investigate potential illegal goings on with their opposition either.

as long as it's the truth that comes out, surely it's a good thing to have this information in the light. 
could someone explain why the fuck anyone it's considered a crime to ask for information?

whole things confusing. I watch a bit of Ben Shapiro & he's convinced the call is a big nothing sandwich...meanwhile I also watch a bit of late night talk shows like jimmy kimmel, and he would have u believe it's the most damning evidence ever. How can the same transcript be interpreted so differently. 
Im not from America land so a lot of my info is taken from twitter and YouTube clips tbh. 

Getting your "news" from right wing shills or from youtube is part and parcel why someone wouldn't "understand" what's going on with the inquiry. 

Mayhaps you'd be better served getting "news" from dedicated news outlets. Do like the intelligent folks do and read some news, from a few different sources, and then make your own decisions about who did what and when.

Or ask here in the echo chamber that has become the OG and continue being confused. 


Yes, the mainstream news that called Trump Manchurian candidate for Russia. Fuck you're stupid.



Please highlight where I told anyone to use "mainstream" news sources. I'll accept your apology in advance, dingleberry. 

I found one bit really interesting. When the transcript was released, the hardcore leftists were so shocked it said basically nothing that they refused to believe it was real. 

After a bunch of MSM explanations/manipulation, they are now absolutely sure it is real and it is a smoking gun. 

 

Thelonious - 

Onepunch.I don't think it's fair to just say it's not a big deal and people who think it is are faggots or unanmerican.

 

Republicans seem pretty split. Fox news is hammering Trump too. It's not cut and dry.

 

If past presidents had acted like this it would be now unclassified and there would be records. I don't believe any past presidents have used aid to get personal favors from other leaders. 

 

 



Oh it's fair


That's the problem these days -- everyone afraid to lay it on the table -- everyone afraid to be offensive.

Fuck that.

What we need is some good old fashioned slap you in the face and shut the fuck up.


The problem with this latest, BATANT, witch Hunt...
... Is that even in a worst case scenario, and Trump actually did day something approaching dubious (a stretch by any standard) -- it STILL doesn't approach an impeachment level scandal, or even close.

ABCTT_sakurabas ear -
Thelonious -

Onepunch.I don't think it's fair to just say it's not a big deal and people who think it is are faggots or unanmerican.

 

Republicans seem pretty split. Fox news is hammering Trump too. It's not cut and dry.

 

If past presidents had acted like this it would be now unclassified and there would be records. I don't believe any past presidents have used aid to get personal favors from other leaders. 

 

 

You were all good until you had to include the conjecture.  Personal favor.  Thanks for playing though.  


Yeah, they have to make that part up.

banco -
KZTT_MMAfan55 - 
banco -
Wylong06 -
banco -

Quid quo pro

We're still going with this lie eh?


What's the lie? Ukranian guy says they need javelins and trump then asks for favors.



Except it was revealed that the Ukranians had no idea that military aid was held up until a month after the phone call. 


So no quid pro quo clearly




I don't see how that helps Trump. Arguably it hurts him. Ukraine needs ongoing assistance with their war with Russia and is heavily dependent on US aid and tony soprano asks for a favor. Nobody has to spell out anything.

Except the reason given was something that was frequently spoken of during Trumps entire time in office...that being other NATO countries should be pulling their own weight in paying for military matters, especially when the outcome is far more critical to them than it is us.


 


Honestly I'm not sure we should be giving money at all.


 


There isnt currently the evidence to hold up the quif pro quo claim.  If you brought this forward as a court case it would likely get thrown out.


 However it "looks" to people who already dislike the president doesnt really matter in this instance since the DNC pulled the trigger on an impeachment inquiry (or is about to).   This isnt just "oh we think it looks like something shitty happened so we are gonna tell everybody."  This is, "remove the leader of the free world from his elected post."


 


Optics and secondhand claims arent enough to try to remove a sitting president from office, and the DNC will find that out the hard way if they push forward with this.


 


This is why I say unless they have something else they will likely end up tucking  before bringing forth articles of impeachment.

Anyone who says they see issues with the transcript and side with Schiffer is a clown. All members here showing support for impeachment based on the hoax needs a reality check.

 

You're being duped , if you cannot see that you need to re-evaluate everything. People are trying to help you , this has long term implications.