I DON'T want my BB in 3 years!

Underground BJJ Ground
1

Brazilian Jiu Jitsu rant:

I've been training BJJ for 6 years now. Currently a purple belt under Marcos Flexa. I compete occasionally , I win some and I lose some. I love to teach. I love to make 'fighters' out of normal people. I love to see it change their self esteem for the better. I love to obsess over details to create better leverage. I love the totally obscure concept of 'BASE' that seems to underly everything that is BJJ. I love the fact that it takes a LONG TIME TO LEARN THIS SHIT. Because all the frustration makes for more understanding about how to overcome obstacles and problems.

I think it's stupid that people advertise their BJJ school with things like "EARN YOUR BLACK BELT IN 3.5 YEARS" and all the marketing bullshit, offering people the fast track.

Yes. it will take a long ass time to learn

No. if you're not willing to bleed to master it, don't bother.

You have to stuggle and overcome. It takes time to sharpen the blade.

BJJ is NOT for everyone.

End rant.

2

Good rant / thread.

3

Saulo did it in 3, Mike Fowler did it in 4., Lloyd did it in 3.5, I did it in 8 (due to judo training). It can be done. What you should say is that you don't want your because you don't want to do what it takes to get it in that time. Because you can get it in that amount of time.

I made the Olympic Team in 6 years. So it's possible. Don't hate the players, hate the game. 

 

;-) 

4

Stop bragging Judo Machine - friggen Olympian pffft!

5

Not everyone wants to train like a professional athlete. Most people have lives. But they also love BJJ and they bleed on the mat.

Trying to lure someone into BJJ by creating a myth that anyone can do it is stupid.

A lot of people don't have the willpower.

I could care less about the color of my belt. I care a lot more about the knowledge I gain everytime I step off the mat.

6

enemy,

You are missing the point anyone can do it if they are willing to invest what it takes. The truth is most aren't willing, but that doesn't change the validity of the statement.The facts remains it's a completely obtainable goal if someone really wants it.

7

I absolutely, positively guarantee that no one can earn a blackbelt from Relson in three years. I don't care who you are or what you do.

8

I think Serra got his BB from Renzo in 5 or 6 which I thought was impressive.

9

rev,

He has Brandon Vera in case you didn't know, he also has Easton, Weiner, and a host of others. I do think he uses the slick used car salesman adverts, but the truth is the only way you are going to achieve what he says is by giving up your life and only doing BJJ.

10

"You are missing the point anyone can do it if they are willing to invest what it takes. The truth is most aren't willing, but that doesn't change the validity of the statement.The facts remains it's a completely obtainable goal if someone really wants it."

Well, I think the real point is that it's not whether or not someone is willing to "do what it takes" but whether or not they CAN. I'm not talking about having the will power - I'm talking about not being able to afford that much time or money to train in the first place.

Everybody mentioned so far in the list of "people who got X in record time" have been gym rats. The time and the money to train every single day.

Most people just don't have that time to afford.

The advertising campaign - although not actually out right lying - it IS misleading in the sense that it suggests he has some AMAZING SECRETS that will fast track you to success.

It turns out that his amazing secrets are "If you train everyday, work really hard and have a good coach you can get a black belt in 3.5 years" But of course this isn't the magic bullet people want to hear about. It is also quite annoying that he keeps hinting at some sort of magic bullet that only fowler and a few others have seen. This has remained some special guarded secret for what, five years now?

Belief + Intelligence + Hard work will ALWAYS lead to success. But the time it takes depends on the time AVAILABLE. If I put in the time and dedication to get a black belt, but I can only train 2 or 3 times per week MAX - I'm not going to get a black belt in 3.5 years.

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Robert,

You are missing the point if you really want it that bad you will make the sacrifices needed to obtain said goal. People do this all the time in life and it's no different here. That's why it's called a sacrifice.

Lloyd has systems in place that speed up the process that you are leaving out. A huge part of going from a decent BJJ guy to a high level player is how you transition. Go to 99.9% of the schools out there and they don't drill transitions and how to set them up, or how to work your game plan. The typical class is warm up, show some random techniques you may, or may not ever use and then spar. Lloyd actually sets up his guys with how to work their game plan and has drills in place to work the transitions etc. That is something that is not addressed in most schools and where he differs.

It's like the old saying goes practice does not make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect and practicing the right things. How you approach your training is as not, if not more important how often you train.

12

Ahhh. So what you really mean is "You can be a Lloyd Irvin black belt in 3 years, if that's all you do, and you're blessed with great talent".

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"You are missing the point if you really want it that bad you will make the sacrifices needed to obtain said goal. People do this all the time in life and it's no different here. That's why it's called a sacrifice."

No, I'm not missing the point. It's NOT just about wanting to (I'm not debating that some don't have the dedication - I'm talking about something else) It's about actually having the resources. Don't tell me the following are identical situations:

1) A guy lives really close to a very good brazilian jiu jitsu school. He has no wife or children, no school and no job to take up his time. Mom and Dad have decided to foot the bill for everything.

2) The rest of the population who have many more responsibilities (family, bills etc etc.)

If you're telling me the same rules apply to both one and two you're completely and utterly insane. If you're going to tell me that a guy who can literally only afford the time and money to train twice per week is in the same boat as a gym rat with no financial worries whatsoever you are beyond hope.

THIS is the problem with the ad campaign.

Most people fall into category 2), whereas the ad is only really applicable to people who are closer to 1).

As I mentioned before - his shining examples are people who have been priveledged with good circumstances. Of course it takes time and dedication - but if someone has to work 60 hours a week to cover the bills they're not starting on the same foot as someone who has no financial worries at all.

So tell me again, what does his campaign say again? Let us take a look - shall we???

"Discover a quick and easy way to improve your training in only 24 hours, by only changing one thing that you do.

Learn the easiest and most efficient way to get into great shape, how to immediately see results in your sparring and gain a mental edge on your opponents right now!

Learn a simple and quick way to get your mind prepared for competition

Why It Doesn't Take 10 Years To Get A Black Belt (We've All Been Lied To)

The Biggest Secret About Training In Grappling That No One Ever Talks About.

The Most Ground Breaking Grappling Training Program Around Today!

How Mike Fowler Defeated Two Gracie's In Jiu Jitsu Having Only Trained For 4 Years!

How You Can Become The Talk Of Your Gym By Your Rapid Progress.

You're Instructor Will Think Your Doing Private Lessons Behind HIs Back.

The Secrets Only World Champions Know And Only Share WIth Themselves"

What words do we see all the time in the above bjjprim8

QUICK, EASY, IMMEDIATE, SECRETS

At no stage do the words "need to train everyday" appear. Nor do "have to dedicate their life to" appear. Nor do "Hard Work" etc appear.

Now you can put this all down to marketing and "he has a right to make money" -- but for crying out loud. He is promising a magic bullet and you come on here defending him saying "Well most people just don't have what it takes".

He mentions NOTHING about how EXCLUSIVE this program is. He implies that it can change ANYONE into a black belt with

QUICK, EASY, SECRETS

Am I clear enough now??

14

Robert,

You are missing the point, the guy with the wife, and two kids already made a life choice and it wasn't that of a fighter prior to making that life. Answer, he made his choices and he didn't want to be a fighter prior to starting a huge family.

I never said this wasn't a slick marketing ploy. Why don't you stop preaching and acting like an ass and read what I wrote in teh thread multiple times and save us both some time.

I also find this funny coming from the guy who thought he could change the tournament scene with how chess is run.

15

bjjprim8,

It's not just the "wife and two kids" guy - its the guy who works a full time job and has to pay bills.

Are you telling me HE is in the same boat?

I read what you wrote and YOU just don't get it. You're trying to tell me his program works, and so far the ONLY people who have come close to making his program work are gym rats with NO RESPONSIBILITIES.

So what have we learned today kiddies?

1) If this program could do what it says - then SURELY there would be more than a handful of success stories that just so happen to have no responsibilities outside of training.

2) You admit that it is a slick marketing campaign - but c'mon bjjprim8, at least admit it is

DECIETFUL

You understand this right? I mean - it's a straightforward concept. He only uses words like quick, easy, immediate, secrets etc all with the obvious suggestion of a magic bullet - which it isn't.

So what of the above is it that you don't agree with?

  • The campaign is not honest?

  • That so far that although he's been a great coach, the only people who have been able to make it work (as he DESCRIBES) just so happen to have the time and resources to dedicate every spare hour to jiu jitsu.

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Bjjprim8, I agree with Enemy, Robert, Hurricane guy, and Revolution. 90% of the people who read the ad "Get your BB in 3 years" will not, upon entering said school, get their BB in 3 years for reasons outlined so thoroughly by Mr. Bentley. But then again, I too must be missing the point.

17

Robert,

The guy who works a full time job and has to pay bills can still train 6 days a week if he so chooses. He doesn't have to sit home and watch tv, or go on the internet he can train.

His program does work, but it does help to devote all your free time to training. He also has a system that other schools aren't using, but once again something you glossed over to make your point.

1) If you knew anything outside your world of chess you would know that Lloyd has the top team in teh U.S. three years running and he built it in a very short time. I guess it must be working.

2) I don't believe it's deceitful. He isn't promising you your black belt in any amount of time and then keeping your money. He is stating it is possible which is true.

I would say that it's a combination of guys using all their spare time to train and having the right system in place. If you don't have both you are spinning your tires. There are many guys who are gym rats that don't achieve their BBs in three to four years, so the fact that he is producing these guys and they are studs speaks volumes. The results are there and you can't say that for most schools and all schools have gym rats.

Lorinho,

The reality is no you won't get it and I have said this over and over. I am saying that it is possible and in todays slick fast food, have dvds sent to your house generation if you tell people it will take 10 years most won't walk in the door. The other reality is this isn't just about people walking in his door, but drawing interest in his products.

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I want a black belt as soon as possible.

Jiu-Jitsu is not rocket science. There really is not all that much to it. With
a good trainer, training partners, and killer work ethic it shouldn't take
more than a few years.

With that said, I have been training since 96 and just got my brown belt
about 5 months ago. No doubt I've missed out on something.

I think it's great win people get good quick.

19

"1) If you knew anything outside your world of chess you would know that Lloyd has the top team in teh U.S. three years running and he built it in a very short time. I guess it must be working."

You have no idea who I am - and you make a stupid ass judgment based on the fact that I play chess?? What are you retarded? I'm sorry - perhaps in your tiny little brain there is room only for BJJ and being a dick on the internet - Bravo!

I NEVER SAID HE WASN'T A GOOD COACH. Is that clear enough for you?

I was taking issue with his "Black Belt in Three Years" claim, which is abundantly clear is a marketing PLOY.

What was this thread about? Was it about his ability as a coach, or his claim of the three year black belt? Your reading comprehension is pathetic.

2) I don't believe it's deceitful. He isn't promising you your black belt in any amount of time and then keeping your money. He is stating it is possible which is true.

You have to be some naive-ass bastard to believe all he is stating is that it is "possible" to get the black belt in three years. He talks about quick and easy improvment, he talks about "secrets" that apparently all the champions are greedily keeping from us, he talks about immediate results, etc etc.

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"There are many guys who are gym rats that don't achieve their BBs in three to four years, so the fact that he is producing these guys and they are studs speaks volumes"

I was unaware that "Master" LLoyd coached BJ Penn... Oh - I suppose he's one of the consipiracy that has been guarding this secret he keeps referring to in his ads right?

"His program does work, but it does help to devote all your free time to training. He also has a system that other schools aren't using, but once again something you glossed over to make your point."

Sorry, what was that? Did you say "but it does help to devote ALL YOUR FREE TIME TO TRAINING"??

Deary me - that HAS to be a lie. It doesn't say ANYTHING about that in his ads.

And his ads are totally honest right?