I know the world is coming to an end...me and Bjjprime8 are in 100% agreement.
Bjjprime8 is correct when he says: "The truth is most aren't willing, but that doesn't change the validity of the statement. The facts remains it's a completely obtainable goal if someone really wants it."
The reality of life is what Lloyd has used to make himself a good Bjj fighter and what has used to produce good Bjj fighters has been used before in other skilled endeavors and sports. It not like anything he says or advocates (in prinicple) is new. It has been used SUCCESSFULLY for years.
When Lloyd first talked about his ideas here on this forum about 4 years ago I mentioned this and Lloyd actually agreed with me.
Bottomline the reason why only "some" people will progress in an activity/artform in a relatively short amount of time compare to others is MOST people simply don't have the same work ethic as others. They are simply not "willing" to invest their time or energy in the same others do.
It surprises me how much people on the "internet" complain about not having enough time, due to other obligations (family, work etc), to dedicate to Bjj, and YET seemingly spend a great deal of their time messing around on the internet!
I've personally witness the work ethic of alot of people in my school. There are some who do a heck of alot in the time they have and they progress quickly. And their are others who simply are lazy and don't do nearly as much as they can in the time they have. Generally speaking it is the one who have poor practice/training habit who don't progress as fast as they like AND who complain about those who do progress fast.
"This wasn't about that, this was about the production of competitive BBs who got their very quickly in 4 years or under."
Lloyd has produced how many competitive black belts in 4 years and under? One so far?
Draculino has produced a mundial winning brown belt in under four years (Has fowler won the mundials?), and a black belt world champion in five. Pretty fast I guess. I'm sure there's more - this is just off the top of my head.
And again - if you're going to keep bringing in the legal definition of "lie" to claim he's NOT being purposefully dishonest you display how much you're reaching.
Bill Clinton never had sex with Lewinski right?
How about that guy mentioned above who out of 10,000 dollars he lost 9,999 and goes home and his wife says "Did you lose all our money???"
He can honestly say "NO!" and keep a clear conscience, because hey - technically he's not lying right?
I mean is this such a hard concept for you to understand prim8??
This is honestly a waste of time. I don't think you are correct and will go one step further and know I am 1000% correct if MG is here agreeing with me.
As long as you find that thought comforting prim8.
I suppose the rest of the people on this thread (besides m.g and ryan hall - a lloyd student) also just don't understand you either.
Oh by the way - I have a Porsche 911, brand new for sale. I'm only charging 1000.00 US for it INCLUDING shipping. There is literally NO mileage on it. It will be delivered straight to your door and you'll be able to drive it around as soon as you get it.
I'm being totally honest here - so do you want to buy it or not?
(don't worry, I know you still don't understand the concepts I've presented so don't answer)
Lloyd has produced how many competitive black belts in 4 years and under? One so far?
Draculino has produced a mundial winning brown belt in under four years (Has fowler won the mundials?), and a black belt world champion in five. Pretty fast I guess. I'm sure there's more - this is just off the top of my head.
what he said. 1 competitive black belt and 1 competitive purple belt, neither of whom will ever win the mundials is a poor return for 4 years of hype.
Lloyd seems content to let Rhadi take over his crown of email marketing hyperbole king these days tho, so its not all bad.
Let me see if I can make this easier for everyone to understand and before I begin I would like to point out I don't know either Robert or bjjprim8
He lies when he uses words like Immediate, Quick, Easy, Success, and he has secrets that every other instructor knows but only he is willing to shear. For a for a price of course.
When in reality it takes hard work, dedication, a good athlete, and good instruction
Even for the guys that did get their black belts in less then 4 years from Lloyd, without even knowing them I bet if you asked, none of them would say it was immediate or easy.
Now no were in this tread do I see anybody questioning if Lloyd is a good instructor. It seems to be that everyone aggress he is.
What I don't get is if everyone is saying that he is a good instructor then why does he use such scum ball advertising? One of my favorite threads on the underground was when CUO did the walk me through a Lloyd Irvin class. Now that was informative and I thought it showed that Lloyd was a very good teacher. If you have not read it please go and check it out. I still keep in my mythread section and review it occasionally, there's a lot of good stuff there but when I see his advertising in magazines I can't help but think he is a used car salesman.
If you really own the car and really are going to deliver it if I can afford it and pay for it then you are being totally honest. If you don't own the car and willing to give it up for that price than it is an outright lie and you are stealing money from me without giving me the car. There is a difference and obviously you are too damn stupid to know that there is one.
Lloyd offers a program, it is up to the consumer to decide if they can afford the time, money, and obligations it takes to complete said program. There is no scam or stealing here he will deliver if you can afford to give those things up. there is a difference. It's too bad you are too stupid to see it.
"I have a Porsche 911, brand new for sale. I'm only charging 1000.00 US for it INCLUDING shipping. There is literally NO mileage on it. It will be delivered straight to your door and you'll be able to drive it around as soon as you get it."
"If you really own the car and really are going to deliver it if I can afford it and pay for it then you are being totally honest. If you don't own the car and willing to give it up for that price than it is an outright lie and you are stealing money from me without giving me the car. There is a difference and obviously you are too damn stupid to know that there is one."
Umm....what if the car is everything he says it is, but the garage it had been held in had been flooded and it was seriously water damaged? According to you, he would be totally honest since he owns the car and is really going to deliver it.
Also, I don't remember Robert saying anything about "scamming" or "stealing", just deceptiveness and dishonesty. You're the one who seems to be taking things to the extreme to make your point.
That being said, anyone who actually believes that getting a BJJ black belt is easy, definitely doesn't have what it takes to get one in the first place whether they buy the program or not.
Draculino is the man! Probably one of the best if not best coaches in Brazil. However, one difference between Draculino and Lloyd's situations is the number of upper belts. How many upper belts does Draculino have training there or have access to in the Barra system. I would assume it's a lot more than Lloyds.
I will also tell you that Lloyd has a far more systematic teaching / training system than the other schools I have trained at. Lot of different drills and scenarios. Plus a lot of mental stuff that most other BJJ coaches don't do (i.e. yearly goal meetings, weaknesses/strengths analyses, etc).
In regards to the 3.5 years black belts, I have seen personally what Fowler and Hall did/do each day and the choice of lifestyle they choose is a lot different than what an average person would choose. One of those things where a coach will tell someone what to do and 1 out of 100 will actually do it. However, Lloyd has a superb competition team but the general internet surfer is not gonna know the names off the top of his head (usually only know Fowler/Hall).
In regards to the "scum ball" advertising and the reason why he uses it - it works. Someone made a list of instructors who were "doing ok". Lloyd is doing a hell of a lot better than "ok". You would be surprised at who in the BJJ community comes to Lloyd for business advice so obviously people have taken notice.
"That being said, anyone who actually believes that getting a BJJ black belt is easy, definitely doesn't have what it takes to get one in the first place whether they buy the program or not."
The difference is Lloyd isn't lying he is going to produce what he offeres if you are willing to invest what it takes. There really is truth in what he is saying he just isn't telling you the things you will have to give up to achieve it.
Your last point is the best point yet and ends it for me.
Typical bjjprim8. Stir up some bullshit and say this is a "waste of [your] time."
What do you know about Lloyd? You're regurgitating some things Mike Fowler told you on the forum about "transitions" and you say that 99% of schools do not teach it? That that is the secret to success? The secret to Lloyd's success with Fowler and Hall is that he decided to devote his time and effort in producing these two guys. He's not devoting that time and effort to each individual student at his academy. Why? because he's using the two for marketing purposes.
there is one problem with your statement Lloyd has the top team in the states right now and has for three years running. I would say he is producing more than one or two guys. He even has champs in MMA and Brandon Vera as well.
I'd also like to know how you know what Lloyd is devoting to his students have you been training there, or know someone who does?
Typical ogjune still has a hard on for me and can't get over the man crush.
"Lloyd offers a program, it is up to the consumer to decide if they can afford the time, money, and obligations it takes to complete said program. There is no scam or stealing here he will deliver if you can afford to give those things up. there is a difference. It's too bad you are too stupid to see it."
INterestingly you actually missed the point.
The car I own is a porsche 911 remote control car that cost me all of 20.00
I didn't lie at all in that original question - which meant it is OK by you.
However - as I have now clearly illustrated, what ISN'T SAID is just as important as what IS said. Just like Lloyd Irwin not mentioning ANYTHING AT ALL other than EASY, IMMEDIATE, QUICK, SUCCESS, BLACK BELT, SECRETS in 3.5 years,
"The difference is Lloyd isn't lying he is going to produce what he offeres if you are willing to invest what it takes. There really is truth in what he is saying he just isn't telling you the things you will have to give up to achieve it."
OK bjjprim8, just to make it an exact analogy to help you understand.
Say the car is totally damaged, ALMOST beyond repair. Lloyd doesn't mention all the hard work and dedication necessary to make his "secrets" work (and as you have already admitted, these aren't special secrets world champions are keeping for themselves, WHICH IS WHAT HE DIRECTLY CLAIMS)...
I Don't mention all the hard work and dedication necessary to get the Porsche back to perfectly working order. Sure you can barely get from point a to point b in the thing (I said you could "Drive" it, I didn't say "how well") -- but with enough dedication of time, money, blood sweat and tears --- you could have yourself a really good porsche.
