"I Know the Real Story Behind "

what did Manny mean when he said that "I know the whole story behind those KO's and I have no problem with his chin" after the Wlad/Byrd fight?

anyone want to guess?

Puts on tin foil hat

well stamina and not the chin clearly seemed to be the problem with Brewster, but it has to be more than that. Sanders was a short fight

Corrie Sanders, Brewster, and Sam Peter are all hard punchers. I guess because Shaver and Tyson dropped Holmes, Holmes doesn't have a good chin either?

I think Klitschko had narcolepsy

well whatever, i'm just saying that i don't think you get to 45-3 if you have a shitty chin. i'm not saying his chin is cast iron, but i think its probably above average, at worst, and he did get up every time Corrie Sanders dropped him, its not like he just falls flat on his face as soon as you hit him solidly

those werent chin problems, anybody would get KO'ed from taking those shots. He can probably overcome them now with the new clinching tactics. However I think if somebody put enough pressure on him, and stuck to him like sweat, they could unravel him. Byrd kinda did it for a round or two, but definately didn't have the stamina to keep it up

Slick, let me bring the thread back on topic by asking you why would Manny say he had no problem with Wlad's chin if its as bad as you say? you've got one of the top 5 or 6 trainers in the business who says flat out that Wlad has no chin problem whatsoever. How do you explain that?

I thought the Brewster fight was a conditioning problem. Sanders is a hard punching southpaw and that can give anyone trouble. I haven't seen the Purity fight, but that was long ago, and i'm not sure it should even matter at this point.

Wlad's chin was good enough for him to get up against Peter, and at least one of those knockdowns was a back of the head punch anyway

he may have been knocked down 10 times, but like half of those were against Sanders, its not like everyone he fights knocks him down, its a situation where once he's in trouble they can knock him down again, and he keeps getting up most of the time. you don't see alot of guys beat the count against Sanders 3 or 4 times.

so anyway, back to the original question, what does Manny know that we don't know? any idea?

What do you expect Manny to say, he's got a bad chin?

Personally, I think it's a little of both, stamina and chin.

i'd expect a less definative answer, like "we're working on his defense" or whatever. not a flat out statement that the guy has no chin problem and that he'll unify the titles and retire 10 years from now undefeated

not to belabor the point, but Joe Frazier was KO'd 3 times and knocked down at least 7 that I can think of, and I wouldn't say that he has a bad chin at all. You take out his fights with Foreman and he looks fine. You take out Wlad's fights with Brewster and Sanders and his chin looks fine too. Manny Pacquiao has some KO losses early in his career, doesn't mean he's got a bad chin, etc etc

"Brewster dropped him and finishd him,"

No he didn't. Wlad got back up, but looked so tired, the ref decided to stop the fight.

"If it was just conditioning, why do punchers give him the most trouble? He had no problem steamrolling Byrd twice"

Wlad really really exerted himself trying to finish Brewster. He paced himself against Byrd, the difference is as simple as that

"Wlad really really exerted himself trying to finish Brewster. He paced himself against Byrd, the difference is as simple as that"

He paced himself because he COULD pace himself against a guy like Byrd who posed little threat with his punching power.

EVERY time Wlad's been in trouble has been when his opponent becomes aggressive and goes on the attack. As Slick mentioned, Wlad does not react well to getting hit and to aggression.

He is a great offnesive fighter when he fights at HIS pace, but when he's pressured in even the slightest way, or faces a guy who can punch harder than my neighbor (and she can't punch hard) then he begins to gas because...fear=fatigue

lol @ this thread.

what was manny suppose to say "hes got a glass jaw, questionable cardio and is a mental midget"?

he has to talk up his fighter.

for the record he'll never unify a damn thing. his problem is mental more then anything and becuase of it hell never get through fights with Rahman or Toney. hell he'd be lucky to make it through another Peter fight. he almost folded up under misses and partial connects and raw pressure, not from any direct contact. a stiff breeze scares this guy.

he is a world burner up until the point someone actually makes solid contact.

"You take out Wlad's fights with Brewster and Sanders and his chin looks fine too."

Don't leave out the Ross Purity fight.

"Steward would not say less."

i never heard him say that he had no problems with Lennox's chin, or that Lennox would retire in 10 years as a unified champion. i dont' know why any of you are pretending that this was the most modest statement he could have made about his fighter

His chin isn't great, but his heart is. He kept getting up and trying to fight, and got in there with Sam peters, one of the hardest punchers in the sport.

If Wlad could take a punch as well as his big brother, I don't think anyone in the division could beat him.

i'm not saying Manny is always right, i'm just asking what you guys thinks he means by that statement. if you think he's just bullshitting around, fine, but he seemed like he really had something he was thinking of when he said it

your other points about Holmes having a good chin or whatever? i agree that Frazier and Holmes had better chins that Wlad, i was just saying that you can't judge people by the number of knockdowns or whatever they've had without considering their opposition. If you put Joe Frazier in there with Sam Peter he'd get knocked down a couple times. You have to remember that these "below average" HWs that Wlad is getting hit by are huge guys, even if they suck in some areas

Shavers was what? 215? 220? its not the same thing at all to face a 220lb puncher and a 260lb puncher in terms of judging two different guys' chins. Foreman was killing Frazier and he was 220. Frazier dropped Ali and Frazier was like 195 or 205 of whatever. You're just talking about different eras entirely, and i know i was the one who brought it up that way, but i think it would be more enlightening to keep it current

If you want to compare Wlad's chin to someone's, compare him to Rahman's, since they both fought and got knocked down by Sanders. Rahman's been KO'd and knocked down quite a few times and I don't remember anyone here saying he has a terrible chin, btw

and i just think that people are underestimating Wlad's chin. the dude didn't win as many fights as he has or the gold medal or anything else with a terrible chin. if anything he doesn't move his head or do other things that would keep him from taking solid shots that he does, but if you let anyone get hit the way he has been and they'd go down, i think

if it means anything jason, i agree with you.

i saw the lamon brewster fight in a bar with my brother. you can say brewster dropped wlad with a jab if you want, but I saw no punch do damage- he got tagged with a jab, threw some more punches, hugged the guy, and fell over.
It was so bad the ref was stepping over wlad. I've never seen anybody gas like that, it was the weirdest thing i've ever seen. His condition did not seem like it was caused by damage, heck there was very little damage being done- he just looked like his body shut down on him.

I didn't see the sanders fight, but sanders hit hard. wouldn't be suprised if klitschko took him lightly due to his reputation as a golfer.

I became a wlad fan during the Charles Shufford fight a few years back and I'm gonna stay a fan till I see anything that makes me think the guy stinks.

I think he's got the most potential of any guy out there, which is why people are much harsher on him when he doesn't live up to expecations of perfection.

I also think the whole "great white hope" thing is a little too easy to bash on in boxing. Right now you got 4 white guys that are high up in the rankings (assuming vitali comes back), no wonder Toney was talkin smack about eastern europeans, he and rahman are outnumbered. haha

I do see a trend of people building up these eastern Euro heavyweights simply because they're white. Seems like there's a burning desire to get rid of the "whites can't box" stigma, and everyone is very quick to artificially inflate these guys' reputations beacuse of that.

If that's the angle you're trying to work, then screw the big clumsy oafs. Look no further than Hatton and Calzaghe if you want examples of truly skilled and talented white guys.

And stop blowing smoke about this current crop of heavys, who frankly suck.