Seriously... I mean if I can get closed guard I can usually hold it for a while but always get in trouble if I go for an arm bar. I have pretty much no triangle and I blame my short legs (but am working on this). I have never been able to sink a kimura from guard though I have drilled it 100 times.
I then get passed. I mean once my legs break guys generally just walk around my legs and I am now stuck in side control. I have spoken with my coach and have drilled side control escapes and simply can't get out most of the time. I actually got pinned and lost a Judo match at a tournament last saturday which sucked badly (basically 25 seconds held in side control ='s a pin).
I will say that if I can stay off the bottom I do pretty well so I try to avoid the position but I know that this is not jiu-jitsu.
So, any pointers?
Really the only sweep that seems to work for me is the oma-plata sweep. Scissor sometimes but I tend to end up just letting the guy pass instead of actually sweeping him. I also keep gettin caught turtled up underneath and have difficulty getting out.
I almost feel like I need to start from the beginning again with my bottom game, specifically side control escapes. I mean I have drilled a bunch of them but when it comes to rolling it is like I get lost on the bottom and do my best to squirm out but never really nailing any one good escape that works down. I have tried going back to half guard/guard with little luck, basically, I am confused.
Am I the only guy out there that feels like I have a terrible bottom game?
Sounds like you could benefit from training more open guard and pass prevention - if you're only focusing on closed guard and side control escapes you're missing several steps.
Check out these vids for pass prevention. These concepts have allowed me to be aggressive with my open guard without fear of getting passed.
Demian Maia - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRgoNsqKunI
Aesopian - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-50b40kules
Mix it up. Try a open guard. Play around with deep half and butterfly guard. I am more successful with half guard sweeps than full guard sweeps. 
^^^^^^ This
I have/had the same problem from the bottom. I'm about 5'9" 215lbs but only a 27" inseam(that's right so I don't want to hear anyone else complaining about short legs). On anyone over 175lbs I would have a hard time closing guard on a non-resisting opponent, let alone even think about a triangle.
So I have dedicated the last 9 months or so to solely working from my back using open, butterfly, x, deep half, lock-down half, or whatever I could. Also started taking privates with one of our asst. instructors who used to roll with Matt Serra(similar build), Rodrigo & Renzo Gracie back in the mid 90's. The fact that this instructor is a closer build to me really helped out as well.
So what I have come to realize thus far:
-Scissor sweep will only work if you explode into it. Without the added shin length it is too easy for your opponent to "crush" the leg you put across their body.
-Closed guard, fogettaboutit
-Butterfly & X seem to be my go to for facing larger opponents(frustrates the hell out of them when you move freely between the two).
-Deep half to top side control is where it's at for me on the offensive. Having short legs comes in real handy eliminating space in top of side control & sneaking it in from the bottom or drive for the isolated leg.
-Having training partners that are willing to drill or positional spar during roll time is also invaluable.
-Of course things work different for different people, these are just some of the things that worked(or didn't) for me.
Hope this helps
^^^^^ this guy knows what his on about.... But the one main thing you can do is not give up and keep rolling AS MUCH as you can! Have fun with it and find a sequence and game that suits you...
The thread title sounds like an Adultfriendfighter.com ad.
Ridgeback - Why do people ask questions like this on here? Are there any good instructors left in the world?
Ummm... Maybe because this ia BJJ FORUM??
Ridgeback - Why do people ask questions like this on here? Are there any good instructors left in the world?
what a strange thing to say.
Wow, I'm like the exact opposite of you. I do awesome on bottom but suck on top. My guard passing is horrendous and I always screw up somehow on top.
I assume you've spend more time drilling and practicing top game than you have bottom game. You're prolly on top usually when rolling too, am I right? Just spend more time working guard stuff and it'll come. Also, if you can improve your flexibility, I think that'll help you.
Half Guard!!
^^^^ Thanks. Will have to try it. I'm guessing the angle should be like a defibrillator? ie: upper peck/armpit to lower opposite ribcage.
Powda- You're a white belt dude, all those things are issues but at your point of the game you have nothing to really worry about. There is just so many things you can and should be doing.
Maybe you're not where you want to be and just anxious to get better but damn, just train.
Lee Sin
You can make the scissor sweep work for you by putting the leg diagonally across the chest instead of just straight across the waist like a lot of instructors teach.
You cant crush the diagonal scissor sweep
Also when I go against a strong base. I use the non sweeping leg and place my foot on their knee and push it out from under them at the same time as I bring my sweeping leg across their chest with my foot in the armpit! It works very good I used it against real giants & good wrestlers
<blockquote>rmenergy - ^^^^ Thanks. Will have to try it. I'm guessing the angle should be like a defibrillator? ie: upper peck/armpit to lower opposite ribcage.</blockquote><br /> remember to always stay on your hips not flat on your back. always have at least one hook on their body. i have shin across pecks and right foot in arm pit my left leg sweeps their right leg. Also you must have control of the arm on side you sweep to.if that doesnt work not a prom as soon as they regain composure they will be heavy on the side you try to sweep to. Take left foot and shove their knee through and roll them. Or if the sweep doesnt work try some half butterfly sweeps mix it up with some bs sub attemps in there. a fav of mine is arm bar from guard to flower sweep.I think the most important thing to remember is to not stay flat on your back because you have no power and cannot move and to always keep a hook in. Dudes will try to pass and they just run circles around you because you have the hook. they get tired,you dont.I know it seems over whelming when it feels like you dont know shit! i prefere bottom but dont mind top. Another sweep that works for me is when they try to pass by trapping your thigh with their shin is to hook the leg with your calf and roll them. take away base use there momentum and have a hook to help them along. sorry for long post!
also. if you stuck in side mount that isnt good. the most important things for you to learn as a white belt is escape!! drill it over and over. i know it is boring and not what you want but if you want to be good in the future you dont have a choice. Submissions are not important at this point they will come. If you have escapes it will only be a matter of time till partner makes a mistake and then submit. Havent you heard position before submission? took me awhile to understand that because i wanted to win in reality escape and you will win!
one more thing.
when they pass turn away from them (i know usually a nono) and into turtle position post your foot that is closest to them right to the outside of their knee and sit out and you will be back in guard. becareful or they will take back but works if you drill. it is hard to stay on you when you are a ball.
Wow a lot of information here!
And yes, position before submission. If you work on position, the submissions will come. In reality I am not very concerned with submissions. I have experienced it where if I can get position the submissions simply open up. The problem as stated above is the bottom game. If I am stuck on bottom I am not in much of a position to do much.
I must admit that it sucks that I read all of this here but cannot view videos and such from work so I have decided to start studying some videos on the topics above before heading to classes.
It sounds like butterfly gaurd, x gaurd, and deep half can be my friends here and I plan on working on these a lot.
Any more info is appreciated and thank you all for the input!
"-Closed guard, fogettaboutit"
don't bash the closed guard bro.
Thread title can be misinterpreted, lol.
powda - butterfly/x are good to know
if you suck from the bottom, can I suggest you not worry about deep half right now? How is your half guard?
I would also suggest just playing simple open guard, have a plan for when your guard gets opened, play the same side grip with same side foot on hip open guard, play spider guard, develop your grips - thats so important, when in spider, try to keep your opponent off balance to his front - kind of like you are doing a back roll to the point that they feel they would need to front roll if you pulled them any further in that direction
when they make space backing away from you in spider they get in control
again, grips are so important
raleigh - powda - butterfly/x are good to know
if you suck from the bottom, can I suggest you not worry about deep half right now? How is your half guard?
I would also suggest just playing simple open guard, have a plan for when your guard gets opened, play the same side grip with same side foot on hip open guard, play spider guard, develop your grips - thats so important, when in spider, try to keep your opponent off balance to his front - kind of like you are doing a back roll to the point that they feel they would need to front roll if you pulled them any further in that direction
when they make space backing away from you in spider they get in control
again, grips are so important
My half guard? I dunno... I mean I get there and hold on a lot of the time. I generally work for this one sweep I have learned that might be considered a deep half kind of move. I basically move my body under his and hook the opposite leg that I am using to hold my guard with my arm and try to roll him over. Horrible description I know but I am assuming this is deep half stuff. I also have been trying getting an underhook and trying to almost stand up in base kind of move and work for the back.
I just seem to get confused as to what to do from these bottom positions. Like I cannot remember details of what I was taught and end up squirming out as opposed to using good solid technique or waiting for my partner to do something that give me room and just taking the open door he left (if he decides to leave one for me).
I think it is only a matter of time before I get some good, solid escapes that work for me from each position but for now I just can't seem to put anything together properly. Almost like I am trying the wrong escapes in the wrong situations sort of thing.