reverend john - Christians don't belong in politics in my opinion. Our kingdom is not of this world, is what Jesus said. He also said not to rule over others.
rev
well then don't piss and moan when they make your religion illegal...
well then don't piss and moan when they make your religion illegal...
reverend john -Brock75thRanger -reverend john -notsobigmike -reverend john - Christians don't belong in politics in my opinion. Our kingdom is not of this world, is what Jesus said. He also said not to rule over others.
rev
To what extent? Should they vote? Should they engage in political discourse and/or demonstrations?
If a Christian feels that a political philosophy or piece of legislation is morally incompatible with his or her faith, how far can he or she go before "entering politics?"
let me preface by saying again this is my opinion, and one that is not shared by most of the Christian community. I believe that Christians should not take office, that they should not vote, nor campaign for things. What I believe they should be, is a radical example of what is a better way to live. I believe also that we should stand on behalf of the downtrodden, and poor, and alienated. That we should stand in the way of the war machine, and run away capitalism. That we should be radically political, but not part of politics. Calling people to account for injustice, but not taking part in a system that endows people with the power to oppress, to kill, to rule over others.
rev
possibly the stupidest post ive ever read on any forum,yea lets be heard and defend the poor and alienated but lets all do it secretly amongst ourselves instead of uniting together to force politicians to do things we cant.Im all for seperation of church and state but this is ignorant.You cant call people to account for injustice without being involved in the political process,the iraq war isnt going to end because christians are reading a book in a church,its because people voted for change.Same with the upcoming healthcare fights,you have a voice but nobody cares or listens if you dont use the leverage you have as a voter to influence politicians,who whether you like them or not,like the system or not,are the tools we have to make change
I said nothing about being secretive. What MLK did, What Gandhi did, what Rosa Parks did were not secrets. So when the city passes a law that makes sleeping in the park a crime, we go, as a group of Christians, and we sleep in the park alongside of the homeless. When the war machine tries to roll on, we get in its way. Look up the plowshares actions. This is not about hiding, it is about not using the instruments of power, and violence.
but hey, thanks for the stupidest comment, that was swell
rev
MLK and Rosa Parks telling blacks not to vote would be the equivalent of what your telling christians not to do,why not be twice as effective and sleep on the park benches and vote for or push for issues at the same time?
You basically beleive in the amish lifestyle and want to seperate yourself from government and society,sorry but about half of the country is christian so that might not be possible "rev"
yes a reverend telling christians not to vote or be involved in the political process might be the dumbest thing ive heard,ps churches enjoy the biggest tax breaks and exemptions in the country and have equally abused them as well cheating the govt and tax payers out of billions of dollars,im sure you would tell your christians not to vote when a tax challenge against churches is proposed and you would lay down on benches in front of the irs to make your point,righttttttt
Theres no link
dawgswrestler -reverend john - Christians don't belong in politics in my opinion. Our kingdom is not of this world, is what Jesus said. He also said not to rule over others.
rev
well then don't piss and moan when they make your religion illegal...
would probably be the best thing that could happen to it
rev
Brock75thRanger -reverend john -Brock75thRanger -reverend john -notsobigmike -reverend john - Christians don't belong in politics in my opinion. Our kingdom is not of this world, is what Jesus said. He also said not to rule over others.
rev
To what extent? Should they vote? Should they engage in political discourse and/or demonstrations?
If a Christian feels that a political philosophy or piece of legislation is morally incompatible with his or her faith, how far can he or she go before "entering politics?"
let me preface by saying again this is my opinion, and one that is not shared by most of the Christian community. I believe that Christians should not take office, that they should not vote, nor campaign for things. What I believe they should be, is a radical example of what is a better way to live. I believe also that we should stand on behalf of the downtrodden, and poor, and alienated. That we should stand in the way of the war machine, and run away capitalism. That we should be radically political, but not part of politics. Calling people to account for injustice, but not taking part in a system that endows people with the power to oppress, to kill, to rule over others.
rev
possibly the stupidest post ive ever read on any forum,yea lets be heard and defend the poor and alienated but lets all do it secretly amongst ourselves instead of uniting together to force politicians to do things we cant.Im all for seperation of church and state but this is ignorant.You cant call people to account for injustice without being involved in the political process,the iraq war isnt going to end because christians are reading a book in a church,its because people voted for change.Same with the upcoming healthcare fights,you have a voice but nobody cares or listens if you dont use the leverage you have as a voter to influence politicians,who whether you like them or not,like the system or not,are the tools we have to make change
I said nothing about being secretive. What MLK did, What Gandhi did, what Rosa Parks did were not secrets. So when the city passes a law that makes sleeping in the park a crime, we go, as a group of Christians, and we sleep in the park alongside of the homeless. When the war machine tries to roll on, we get in its way. Look up the plowshares actions. This is not about hiding, it is about not using the instruments of power, and violence.
but hey, thanks for the stupidest comment, that was swell
rev
MLK and Rosa Parks telling blacks not to vote would be the equivalent of what your telling christians not to do,why not be twice as effective and sleep on the park benches and vote for or push for issues at the same time?
You basically beleive in the amish lifestyle and want to seperate yourself from government and society,sorry but about half of the country is christian so that might not be possible "rev"
yes a reverend telling christians not to vote or be involved in the political process might be the dumbest thing ive heard,ps churches enjoy the biggest tax breaks and exemptions in the country and have equally abused them as well cheating the govt and tax payers out of billions of dollars,im sure you would tell your christians not to vote when a tax challenge against churches is proposed and you would lay down on benches in front of the irs to make your point,righttttttt
So what did more to change things rosa parks voting? or her sitting in the front of that bus? What did more, MLK voting, or him marching into dogs, water hoses and jail? I think the church should get no government money for anything. I think they should pay property taxes if they own property, and should pay taxes on their income. some of them are huge corporations that pay their executives (pastors) huge sums of money, it is disgraceful.
If you understood the teachings of Jesus the way I do, you would understand. I do not believe that someone who seriously says they follow the teachings of Jesus, can take part in a system that give people the right to kill others, the power to take land, to oppress people, to keep people poor. By taking part in that system, I am saying that I believe someone else should rule, where Jesus says, "not to rule over others the way the world does"
I don't really give a shit if you think it makes sense, that really isn't the point. The point is, you either follow Jesus or you don't.
rev
Oh, by the way, I believe in the Amish way to a point. I believe we are to seperate ourselves from government, but not society. This is where they go wrong in my opinion. We are to be Amish ish, but living in the midst of culture, not retreating from it.
rev
Brock, would you name a political action that you took that led to quantifiable change?
Rev, I dont know Warren or his point but he has been less than forthright on the HG especially. Ill take your word for it that he is a decent human being and leave him alone. BW, at the wish of the Rev. I apologize.
reverend john -Brock75thRanger -reverend john -Brock75thRanger -reverend john -notsobigmike -reverend john - Christians don't belong in politics in my opinion. Our kingdom is not of this world, is what Jesus said. He also said not to rule over others.
rev
To what extent? Should they vote? Should they engage in political discourse and/or demonstrations?
If a Christian feels that a political philosophy or piece of legislation is morally incompatible with his or her faith, how far can he or she go before "entering politics?"
let me preface by saying again this is my opinion, and one that is not shared by most of the Christian community. I believe that Christians should not take office, that they should not vote, nor campaign for things. What I believe they should be, is a radical example of what is a better way to live. I believe also that we should stand on behalf of the downtrodden, and poor, and alienated. That we should stand in the way of the war machine, and run away capitalism. That we should be radically political, but not part of politics. Calling people to account for injustice, but not taking part in a system that endows people with the power to oppress, to kill, to rule over others.
rev
possibly the stupidest post ive ever read on any forum,yea lets be heard and defend the poor and alienated but lets all do it secretly amongst ourselves instead of uniting together to force politicians to do things we cant.Im all for seperation of church and state but this is ignorant.You cant call people to account for injustice without being involved in the political process,the iraq war isnt going to end because christians are reading a book in a church,its because people voted for change.Same with the upcoming healthcare fights,you have a voice but nobody cares or listens if you dont use the leverage you have as a voter to influence politicians,who whether you like them or not,like the system or not,are the tools we have to make change
I said nothing about being secretive. What MLK did, What Gandhi did, what Rosa Parks did were not secrets. So when the city passes a law that makes sleeping in the park a crime, we go, as a group of Christians, and we sleep in the park alongside of the homeless. When the war machine tries to roll on, we get in its way. Look up the plowshares actions. This is not about hiding, it is about not using the instruments of power, and violence.
but hey, thanks for the stupidest comment, that was swell
rev
MLK and Rosa Parks telling blacks not to vote would be the equivalent of what your telling christians not to do,why not be twice as effective and sleep on the park benches and vote for or push for issues at the same time?
You basically beleive in the amish lifestyle and want to seperate yourself from government and society,sorry but about half of the country is christian so that might not be possible "rev"
yes a reverend telling christians not to vote or be involved in the political process might be the dumbest thing ive heard,ps churches enjoy the biggest tax breaks and exemptions in the country and have equally abused them as well cheating the govt and tax payers out of billions of dollars,im sure you would tell your christians not to vote when a tax challenge against churches is proposed and you would lay down on benches in front of the irs to make your point,righttttttt
So what did more to change things rosa parks voting? or her sitting in the front of that bus? What did more, MLK voting, or him marching into dogs, water hoses and jail? I think the church should get no government money for anything. I think they should pay property taxes if they own property, and should pay taxes on their income. some of them are huge corporations that pay their executives (pastors) huge sums of money, it is disgraceful.
If you understood the teachings of Jesus the way I do, you would understand. I do not believe that someone who seriously says they follow the teachings of Jesus, can take part in a system that give people the right to kill others, the power to take land, to oppress people, to keep people poor. By taking part in that system, I am saying that I believe someone else should rule, where Jesus says, "not to rule over others the way the world does"
I don't really give a shit if you think it makes sense, that really isn't the point. The point is, you either follow Jesus or you don't.
rev
Her sitting in front of the bus inspired hundreds of thousands of people,mlk inspired hundreds of thousands of people or probably millions,but imagine if they said to blacks dont vote,then theyre actions and inspirations would do nothing to produce changing of laws,only the masses who elect politicians can do that.Theyre actions were bigger then theyre vote,but theyre actions inspired millions to put pressure on the govt to adapt to laws.I cant imagine how saying not voting equals not giving in to living under laws and govt that you dont beleive in,theyre are plenty of places in this world where govt doesnt have control over there people and i would imagine you wouldnt last a week in that environment.I should know as i have spent time in a few of these places myself.
Govt isnt perfect,but if the govt has nobody to answer to,"voters" then your part of the problem,not part of the solution and if you think otherwise your in denial.If Jesus wanted to govern,hed come here and do it
Posty Magee - Brock, would you name a political action that you took that led to quantifiable change?
I vote
Jesus didn't govern, that is the point. He could have, but he chose to instead be salt and light. I am not telling anyone not to vote, atleast not non Christians. I am saying that we should inspire the government, or the electorate, to yearn for a better world.
Jesus lived in a society that didn't have elections. But he taught that the kingdom of God could and would be realized no matter what was around. So if Christians, actually lived out what they believed, cared for the sick, loved their enemies, took care of the poor, loved the unloveables. They then need to vote for the state to do those things? If they loved and cared for the black people, and lived that example, and the black Christians loved and cared for each other, and their white brothers and sisters, then it wouldn't matter what the non Christians did.
But when the non Christians, or false Christians saw what a world could be like where, people are judged by their character, and not the color of their skin, they would want their elected reality to be the same. You can influence without taking part. Gandhi often rallied the government against his opinions, because he knew it wasn't their opinons, but they were showing deference to him.
rev
TheTFC - So are you going to hire me to do your fund raising or what?
send me your info. unbreakablegym@aol.com God Bless people! B Warren
zealot66 - Rev, I dont know Warren or his point but he has been less than forthright on the HG especially. Ill take your word for it that he is a decent human being and leave him alone. BW, at the wish of the Rev. I apologize.
LOL, Rev to the rescue!