this is an interesting question now that the there are alot of russian/soviet champions...and the heavyweights are totally domiated by them...
this could be explained by sayin that the american guys turning pro are not as good as the ones before or you take a different explainton by sayin the reason ameircans domintated before was because the russians that beat them in the amauters did not turn pro...
the counter to this is ofcourse that in the amauters, the russians were usually more experienced then the much younger americans...
the different boxing styles is also an interesting point, go to a begginner class in an american boxing club and a russian one and you will see the difference.
some say the american one is better for the pro game, a point i agree upon...
all this aside had the russians turned pro in the glory years of soviet sports would history be different....
would frazier,norton,ali.holmes have dominated or would have men like
Evgeniy Gorstkov,Igor Vysotsky,peter zaev, also been champions with proper training for the proper game...
even at the lighter weight classes would emile griffin and carlos monzon have domainted the middeweight class or would it have been guys like boris Lagutin,valery Popenchenko, rufat riskev etc
(in regards with popenchenko alot of people from the eastern block say he was the greatest fighter to ever live, one romanian coach i had said he was much better then roy jones)
the argument can be made for alot of weight classes....
In the 70s, the dominant heavyweight in the amateurs was Teofilo Stevenson from Cuba. If boxers from communist countries had been allowed to turn pro, he would have been the biggest challenge for Ali, Foreman and Frazier, not some Russian or East German.
Here is something poster Valdosta and I spoke about years ago. The LIGHTERWEIGHT Cubans had some success in USA because when they got outa hell, they always had to make weight, therefore they wre usually well prepared for their pro bouts and had some success.
BUT the heavier guys...... Gomez, Gonzalez, Azcuy, really dissapointed. You see when these guys come over and sign, promotor throws them 200k maybe, a modular home in Florida or somewhere and these guys feel like sonmeone who hit the USA powerball. I was in Cuba in 2001 and toured the boxing facilties and some homes of athletes. While they were better than the youth wrestling facilities, they were really ghetto. Anyways my point is the heavier guys get lazy and out of shape and never seem to pan out. There championship was getting to the USA and Freedom. Very good guys to bet against. Where as the Casamayors have to make weight to fight and are usually in shape. And they dont get the 200k type sign bonuses. So they stay hungry. You really cant imagine how bad Cuba can be if you live there beautifull beaches , ok hotels, awesome throwback 50's cars, but exterem poverty. But LOW crime. Your safer as tourist there than being in the UN building in NY. You rob a tourist and get caught, Castro will make Q Bay look like the Hilton.
Since the Wall came down, I doubt you will see this with the former Russian state boxers, but its hard to imagine same may have held true for the Russians as the Cubans today. But the paydays back in the 70s-80's arent what they are today without all the TV networks, so manybe they would stay hungry and be super competitive.
there are a few points here to discuss espically the whole russia and cuba issue...
many people assume that the russians taught cubans to box which WRONG...cuba already had a great boxing school before commmunism came BUT...the russians did inflence and change the boxing system there alot...so cuban boxing is a mixture of american/latin style boxing and the soviet style boxing....
the other thing about some of the boxers from failing etc..for various reasons mentioned....
this is little to do with soviet boxers because russians and their culture is very different then cuba and it's mainly latin culture...
the other issue to mention here is a rather nagative one espically in boxing and espcially in the heavyweight ranks...
the issue is racism against russians/soviet people because
since the days of rocky maricano anytime a white continder appeared such as tommy morrison,bobick,cooney etc
the american media would pour a ton of money into him and make him a great white hope...etc
and people would say if a white guy won the heavyweight tittle, there would be so much attention and money etc...
now all the champions are white but no one seems to pour money or attention into the sport...you just hear things like the russians have a stranglehold on boxing.
before they would tell everyone "ohh the russians won't do good in the pros" etc and in the olympics,american tv would often give eastern block guys negative reviews.
to put this whole rant into one short sentence...one of the boxing coaches in my club...who was a heavyweight said the fellowing about today's boxing..."ohh there are no good heavyweights now,just a bunch of commie's with belts.
a young, raw, and amateur Foreman beat the living crap out of the best Soviet Heavyweight in the 1968 Olympics to win the Gold. Imagine what the 1973 version of Foreman would have done to that guy!
Guys like Ali, Frazier, and Foreman had already beaten the very best Soviet fighters in the amateurs and Olympics.
Stevenson would have likely beaten Ali, Foreman, or Frazier in a short, Olympic style fight, but in a professional fight I have no doubt that they would have all beat him handily.
ofcourse the white hope thing was around rocky but before rocky there were many good white heavyweights as well the fact that soviet boxing was really that developed before this time with a few expections.
as far as ali and foreman etc still domimanting the heavyweight class, i agree...
those for the glory days for the heavyweights,
the soviets would changed the picture a bit but not that much...
in fact in those days they would probably more like changed the picture in welterweight to light heavyweight scene...
hey bsrizpac why don't u leave ur gay fantasy out of this...
i know your boxing know how comes from espn speicals which tell you about the greatness of ali 24 hours a day, just accept there was another side of boxing with it's own legends...
ahh did i forgot to mention where all the champions are now from...
"but before rocky there were many good white heavyweights"
Yeah, they were Americans too. The only reason the former Soviets are champs now is that the good American athletes realized they could make millions without getting punched in the face.
If Wlad and Vitaly could hit a jump shot they wouldn't be in boxing either.
"Yeah, they were Americans too. The only reason the former Soviets are champs now is that the good American athletes realized they could make millions without getting punched in the face."
this is one the most common and stupid arguments there is which basically says that the only reason russians are winning is because americans are payin other sports...
is that why they if you watch say the world championship from 1974/1978...they are beating up americans lol
and you my friend understand nothing about the culture of those people... by sayin this...
"If Wlad and Vitaly could hit a jump shot they wouldn't be in boxing either."
in that people of the world combat sports are held in very high regard and there are alot of guys there who think they are tough from an early age, so they are put in boxing,wrestling,sambo,judo etc...
these guys grow up and do the same to their kids...
to put things in short a guy throwin a ball into a hole does not get the respect a fighter gets over there.
the culture over is not like it is becomin over most of north american where kids are caught to press charges if someone hits them...over there you hit back or your branded a bitch for life lol