Influences in Crazy Monkey

I don't know a lot about Crazy Monkey but from what I've seen it is similar to empty hand Kali. I was just wondering how much if at all empty hand Kali has influenced the concept of Crazy Monkey? I thought this would be the best place to ask.


You may find similar motions in many other styles, but it's the "package"...the way it's unified or put together a a cohesive whole.

Beyond the ocassional elbow spike I don't see the similarities to empty hand Kali. POSSIBLY a Monkey Kung-Fu style or some of DeThoaurs(sp?) stuff, but not Kali. Which style of Kali did you have in mind?


"POSSIBLY a Monkey Kung-Fu style or some of DeThoaurs(sp?) stuff."

No sir. There is no monkey kung fu, or any of that kind of thing in there. It's actually called crazy monkey simply because there is a monkey in Africa that continualy runs it's hands through it's hair, and it's African name means crazy monkey.

Nor is there a kali influence.

Crazy monkey comes from regular western boxing, Muay Thai, wrestling, and Rodney's own experience's sparring with great boxers, and learning to survive.


WHAT. I thought it was all Kali and Kung Fu. I resign.


If Adam's out then I'm out too.

And...I'm calling Lu.

- Paul


See ya


its actually silat

-rory singer

I found this picture to show the old school boxing connection to crazy monkey. Sorry its no shaolin monk but it will have to do. Scan down the article you will see the pic I'm talking about.

Sure is alot of MONKEY BUSINESS going on around here!

Just for fun I think one of you guys should bring a sarong for Rodney to wear at the next seminar. I will bring a video camera, and a first aid kit.


Yes, that combing motion shows up in DeThouars silat. It is the head stroking motion from monkeys in SE Asia. No secret master watched a monkey. Guys got in fights and used what works. The "Helmet" shows up in alot of places having evolved from conflict. Fairbairn used it. This predates Rodney by at least one or two years ;-))

The difference is to spar it often. Both Paul and William DeThouars have showed variation at seminars I attended. By the way, when you are in Bellflower, CA., stop by Vic DeThouars and he will show you the motion and application.

Still,..I like Rodney's approach and teaching style and how he mixes, drills it, and applies it.

There is nothing really new, but the training evolves from years of djuru's to the 3 I method.

I like to play hard, the old timers want you to do djurus for years. ..Oh well.

Tom Furman

My personal opinion, having sparred with Rodney many times quite a few years back, is that crazy monkey was just an evolution. Rodney always does different things when sparring, looking for ideas. I remember sitting down after class rubbing my knuckles because of the contact on his elbow, and I remember him teaching the motions to us in class, without the term "crazy monkey" having been coined. I dont think that there is anything deeper than Rodney having worked out a good way of teaching effective standup techniques that work very well for people like myself, who may not be the most gifted athletes in the world.

Either that or the pale one that used to visit on the new moon taught him...


Hey Bruce

It's been a while,how are you keeping my friend?



If you're ever in Bellflower, CA come by Centerline Gym and we can rock some Crazy Monkey.


Somebody posted a similar post on the SFUK forum, entitled "Is Crazy Monkey just a version of empty hand Kali and nothing else"

Here is my response:

It still amazes me what people place importance on! Instead of bringing about intillegent questions that will enable everyone to grow and learn, it seems questions are asked with very little thought or emotional content!

Is 'Crazy Monkey' just a version of Kali empty hands....does it matter if it is, it could be a version of western boxing, Muay Thai and the list could go on. At one point in time fighting was fighting, today it has been replaced by peoples insecurities in themselves and the corruption of the human mind......

If people feel 'Crazy Monkey' is merely this or that, then go study or train in an environment which you think it is. Who am I or anyone to say otherwise. It works for me and the people I coach, that included with the total package of what is coached is more important than nonscense debate on ridiculous questions, which have no substantial answers and will add little in the growth of the subject....

I have not, or ever claimed that the 'Crazy Monkey' is something new that I have invented to the exclusion of all else (It is merely mz expereince of the game) in the domain of aliveness, Kali, Muay Thai, Kung Fu etc, share a perennial philosophy that is easily not seen by people who are goverened by there own egoic agenda!

Back to the freezing cold weather in Slovakia:)


Rodney "Chico" King


I HAVE seen similar motions with the "combing" in Monkey Kung-Fu and DeThaours stuff. I put caps on "POSSIBLY" because I COULD see how someone might think there was an influence. Not that there was one.

However, it's all moot as Rodney's not that important! ;-)

The only time I've seen something similar to the "combing" motion were in:

a) Some covering motions in Pentjak Silat. They seemed more "static", though IMHO.

b) Some covering motions from 52 Blocks that I saw demonstrated (the guy called it "shampoo" since it looks like you're shampooing your hair).

Since Rodney is from South Africa, I foresee some 52 Blocks dudes coming out and claiming that Rodney has stolen the secrets of African fighting from the black man.

You heard it here first, folks!


In the wilds of NYC we have similar beastie known as the Crack
Monkey... I observed one the other day fend off a NYPD alpha-
male, and while the approach was similar to CM, the slight
variation was that Crack Monkey actually is pulling out it's hair and
eating it. Constant shivvering seemed to also throw off the timing
of his agressor... handcuffs seem to be its main weakness.