is anyone surprised that...

Underground
1

 ....Strikeforce is still around?

 







so far they've survived Hendo's loss, Jake's mutiny, Gina's destruction, Fedor's quick tap, and a CBS brawl.  coker's show seems to have 9 lives.  



interested like to hear the UG's thoughts on why this promotion manages to stick around.  and also interested to hear the UG's predictions on SF's ability to maintain.









 

2

Here4aDay - Don't forget that hype job musassi or whatever his name is getting beat.

and yet SF sticks around.

so whats your analysis of their ability to survive?

3

I believe that Scott has been doing shows for over 15 years.It`s going to take alot for him to fail.

4

 I think people don't understand what actually kills a company.  Strikeforce has been around since 1994.

5

double

 

6

frontrowbrian - Why wouldn't they still be in business? 

As long as Showtime is interested in MMA and wants to pay them a rights fee, Strikeforce will be in business.


thats a bit of a misnomer, FRB.

i worked at EliteXC as a marketing manager, and i can attest that CBS/SHO didnt bankroll our company. they helped cover promotion, production, and broadcast costs...but the promotion had to be able to achieve financial success on its own accord. SF must be making money on its own to succeed. or they must have a long line of patient & hungry investors who keep giving and arent too interested in making a return any time soon.

and i have a hard time believing the latter.

7

crowbar - I believe that Scott has been doing shows for over 15 years.It`s going to take alot for him to fail.


i think he did one MMA show in 1996 or 1997, but his second wasnt until 2006. i believe the balance of his experience comes via his days as the head of K-1 North America, not via his own MMA promotion.



but i dont discount Coker's experience and history in either MMA or kickboxing. of course this counts towards his success. but Gary Shaw ran successful boxing events for years (and still does) and he failed miserably in MMA (no thanks to junior-shaw).  Coker must be doing something right at this moment to survive what most fans and critics (and competing promoters) believed to be death-blows.   and i honestly cant put my finger on what he's doing different from the rest that keeps him afloat.



TTT for more thoughts and opinions from the all-wise, magic-8-ball that is the UG... 

8

frontrowbrian -  SF, despite all their detractors, runs a very smart business. They keep their expenses at the very minimum and don't do any shows unless they have a guaranteed rights fee set up. They then consider what the rights fee is and put together a card within that budget.

i suspect this is a big part of the answer. EliteXC didnt know how to balance its checkbook.

9

i think working with other orgs keeps them afloat

10

Strikeforce has had its problems. They refuse to really up their marketing and promotion game. They don't brand their product and their fighters enough. They don't do enough to get the word out on their shows they seem to expect for Showtime and CBS to do all that for them and they don't do a good job at it.

All that said, I would guess that the other posters in how they run their business are probably right. I'm assuming Strikeforce knows how to run a tight ship and not kill themselves in terms of money. They generally make some good fighter acquisitions and they also don't get into bidding wars over fighters. However, Strikeforce at the end of the day is still a marginal promotion and their divisions aren't very deep enough to sustain itself for long.

11

Patrick...it surprises me greatly that someone with your level of experience thinks that what goes on in the cage with the big stars of a promotion is the determining factor as to whether the promotion survives or not.

EliteXC was fucked long before Kimbo went belly up.

12

They definitely do have 9 lives. Hopefully they haven't used up too many.

13

 I appreciate the knowledge FRB has dropped on this thread.

14

sf has been around a long time, it all started here in sj


only recently have people started noticing it because of all the bigger names they are getting signed to the promotion



i dont think sf is going anywhere

15

 strikeforce is owned by the same people that own the san jose sharks.. strikeforce also has a strong local fan base in the bay area and strikeforce did kickboxing events years before jumping into mma..  and strikeforce will do fine without showtime, cbs and m-1.. that is if they can get away from them.

16

PatrickFreitas -  ....Strikeforce is still around?<div> </div><div>


so far they've survived Hendo's loss, Jake's mutiny, Gina's destruction, Fedor's quick tap, and a CBS brawl.  coker's show seems to have 9 lives.  

interested like to hear the UG's thoughts on why this promotion manages to stick around.  and also interested to hear the UG's predictions on SF's ability to maintain.

maybe mafia backed?


18

PatrickFreitas - ....Strikeforce is still around?<div> </div><div>



so far they've survived Hendo's loss, Jake's mutiny, Gina's destruction, Fedor's quick tap, and a CBS brawl. coker's show seems to have 9 lives.

interested like to hear the UG's thoughts on why this promotion manages to stick around. and also interested to hear the UG's predictions on SF's ability to maintain.

</div>


it hasn't even been a year since they've stepped foot on the national stage. Bodog, Pro-Elite, Affliction, IFL all had a longer shelf life than this.

Unfortunately though we're seeing Strikeforce go through the same patterns as all the others and we know what's coming because we've already seen the ending.

They all start out sounding like lions but then end up like lambs.

Pro-elite lasted as long as there was investor money to pillage. Same with IFL. It will be the same for Bellator and it will be the same for strikeforce. Strikeforce will be on the national stage as long as Showtime wants to subsidize it.

In every case though the money ran out or the "investor" pulled the plug.

And if Something big doesn't happen within the next 12 months Showtime will also pull the plug. Either a successful ppv, EA MMA game doing gangbusters (resulting in a new financial backer), or Getting back on CBS and doing great numbers garnering a more robust network deal.

None of those seem likely and a clear indicator on what showtime will decide will be what kind of Fight Contracts Coker starts signing in about 12 months. For the most part Showtime's budget for MMA is already set until then and that's when they'll decide what to do moving forward (renew deal, renegotiate or cancel).

The reason why they wont continue unless something drastic happens (like ppv, etc..) is because they're a premium channel and cant be seen competing with Free cable tv like Spike or versus (especially with an inferior product). They dont have any other programming that contradicts their business model and I dont think MMA will be the exception.

Before they were playing with Pro-Elite money and now they're playing with Shareholder money... if they cant make it with Strikeforce there wont be a new red headed step child to take its place.

They wanted to compete with the UFC but they are farther from that goal now than when they started (no closer to a ppv, horrendous CBS ratings, Fedor losing his mystique, Hendo losing, Gina leaving, etc... pretty much everything they invested in has been a bust). What's worse is that competing with the UFC is not a position where time is on your side. It's like running in quicksand... very hard to make progress or improve your position when everything you try just causes you to sink further down.

They just lost their best fighter (Jake Shields) to the UFC and they're signing Paul Daley. Market forces are a bitch and it's telling strikforce to either know your role or be forced into it.

19

It looks like Showtime is happy with Strikeforce

Just look at there ratings for Strikeforce events compared to Showtime Boxing, Showtime pays a lot more for there boxing contract I believe

After the 3 year deal is up I'm sure Strikeforce can get a better deal thru Showtime or look some where else, they will be fine

20

SF has had some great events. Coupled with the co-promoting with DREAM and M-1 they have allowed fans to view some great match-ups eg, Aoki v Melendez. I wish them all success and I hope that more top level fighters join their ranks.

Now imagine if the UFC allowed co-promoting...

21

Having been seen the inner workings of both promotions, you couldn't even begin to mention EliteXC and Strikeforce's business models in the same sentence. Where to begin?

EliteXC got big investment, spent like a drunken sailor, and tried to jump in the deep end right away. Although I personally liked many of the people working there, I think they were doomed from the start.

Strikeforce came from more modest means, is relatively tight with their budget and built itself from a local promotion to a national promotion.