All that’s true, no doubt. He clearly “didn’t suck”. He was always world class. He was also always the 2nd or 3rd best heavyweight in the world at any given time of his prime. Holyfield and Lewis were proven to be better, both would have beaten him 10/10 times. Bowe would have beaten him in his prime as well IMO. You can’t be the best of all time and only be #3, with Bowe arguably #4 of your own era. The Foreman comment is also interesting… he could have given Tyson problems as well. That beating he took from Hollyfield was ungodly and he never took a backward step.
Good post.
Tyson with Kevin Rooney still around, would have been a tough fight for Holyfield.
The version of Tyson that Holyfield beat, was significantly less effective.
Holyfield said it himself too.
He said that under Rooney, Tyson was unpredictable. That made him more dangerous. Don King’s crew came in and gave Tyson a predictable cadence.
Holyfield’s camp was able to predict Tyson and drill Evander’s counters based on tape study.
The first Frank Bruno fight was, IMO, that last we would see of “prime” Tyson .
Rooney had been gone a few months by then IIRC, and despite being surrounded by thugs and yes-men… Tyson still had some of that ring discipline, and it showed.
Not saying that was Tyson at his best. Just that it was the end of “prime Tyson”.
Of course by the time of the Douglas fight, Tyson was partying harder than he was training.
And he was surrounded by people manipulating him, and convincing him he was unstoppable.
On his initial historic run, Tyson never really showed the in-ring frustration we would see from him later.
He was disciplined both in his training, and in the ring. He stuck to his game plan, and it worked.
Didn’t hurt that he had an all-time chin for the times he did get caught.
Bruno caught him with a good one, and Tyson didn’t even flinch.
Cocaine, and substance abuse in general, can really suck the intestinal fortitude out of a man.
People tend to apply Tyson’s later career moments of weakness and frustration, to young Tyson’s capabilities.
This is flawed logic IMO.
As far as Foreman:
A lot of people say Foreman would have beat Tyson, as if it is a fact.
Some people base this on a conversation Tyson had in a restaurant, of all things!
It would have been a dangerous fight for both guys.
But Tyson matches up better with Foreman than people seem to believe.
Foreman would have been open to a lot of what Tyson did well.
I don’t pretend to know what would have happened – but it’s anything but a foregone conclusion.
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Thinking he’s overrated doesn’t necessarily take away from his greatness. It’s just that the hype goes further than the man and his actual accomplishments.
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“the youngest boxer ever to win a heavyweight title. He was the first heavyweight boxer to simultaneously hold the WBA, WBC and IBF titles, as well as the only heavyweight to unify them in succession. The following year, Tyson became the lineal champion”
Per his wiki. Similar to ODLH where he lost a lot of his big fights, but he’s a top 15 HW
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Yes. The reign of RR was an infuriating time in my life
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You and me both.
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And without the mental health issues he deals with…
You timeline is way off, man. Lennox Lewis’ pro debut was June of 1989, and Tyson won his first world title in November 1986. Also, like I said in my previous post, Holyfield wasn’t even fighting at HWT for most of Mike’s title reign. At the time Mike won his first HWT title, Holyfield had just a few months earlier won his first world title at 190 pounds by split decision.
If you want to say that a prime Evander and Lennox beats a prime Tyson, fine…possibly…but those 3 fighters weren’t in their prime at the same time. When Mike lost his belts to Douglas, Lewis had 7 pro fights.
Same goes for Riddick Bowe, he made his pro debut in March of 1989, 11 months before Tyson lost to Douglas. Mike had already been champ for like 4 years when Bowe made his pro debut.
From 1986-1989 Mike was the best, and I don’t know how you can argue that. Evander was fighting at 190, and saying he was better than Tyson during Mike’s title reign doesn’t make sense. It’d be like saying Matt Hughes was never the best 170 pounder in the world, it was BJ Penn all along and BJ proved that.
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Another thing to keep in mind, Evander was a different guy when he first moved to HWT. He weighed in at 202 pounds for his first HWT fight in 1988. I don’t like his chances against the Tyson who fought Spinks with Evander being outweighed by 20 pounds.
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“Of all time” is the most overused phrase in sports, of all time.
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Lewis on jre podcast said, that he fought not that Mike Tyson, he explained mike needed money and he knew only one way to earn
GSP was overhyped, but if you carefully look at his record, you will see the GOAT status to him ia undeserved. The way he won, the quality of opposition, nah…
Amanda Nunes is also overhyped as the GOAT. But what kind of opposition does she really have? They all suck.
I think it was all about his style. Was he the greatest of all time in terms of W/L … no. But he was the most exciting and don’t think he ever had a boring fight, always went for the kill
That Sport Bible list is laughable. Foreman one place below fucking Valuev? And Tyson one place below Bowe? Both absolutely ridiculous
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Absolutely not.
He is one of the greatest of all time in an iconic way that has never replicated by anyone since or before.
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Where is he ranked (by a respectable source) as a top 10 great? Overhyped wouldn’t be someone who unified all the belts in exciting fashion and had a legit run as the undisputed best HW in the world.
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He’s up there. Never avenged a loss, never beat any of true top contemporaries. Who is his beat win? Spinks? Holmes? Bruno?
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Tough to avenge losses, when all but maybe one of them occured when you were past your prime.
His best win is arguable.
But he had several very good ones.
And it was also the way he beat these guys.
Total devistation.
I personally think the win over Holmes is something he deserves more credit for than he often gets.
Yes, Holmes was past his prime.
But he is still an all time great at HW, and he had a nice run after the Tyson fight.
So he wasn’t “done” like an Ali in the end.
And Tyson just ran through him.
It wasn’t even close.
He applied pressure and never let Holmes get set.
If it had even been a little bit competitive – one might have been able to argue that prime Holmes had a better chance.
But it wasn’t.
Tyson ran through him.
Maybe prime Holmes lasts a little longer – but a young and focused Tyson was a tough nut to crack – and more than likely he cracks you first.
It’s kind of funny…
Tyson did better and lasted longer vs Lewis --when he was much farther past his prime than Holmes was when Tyson destroyed him…
Yet the Tyson haters will continue to use the Lewis fight as if it is some kind of accurate barometer for Tyson’s career – while at the same time dismissing Tyson’s win over Holmes as an assualt on a senior citizen.
Flawed logic.
Silly.
As usual… Context is needed.
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Mike Tyson was an incredible fighter. Definately top three or four.
His technical abilities were unseen before then, the head movement [vs Reggie Gross] the hand and foot speed, [vs Marvis Frazier] the unique combinations [vs Alfonso Ratliffe] punching power [vs Henry Tillman]
Tyson was the most special and unique heavyweight boxer I’ve ever seen in my lifetime
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It’s Mike Tyson bro.
You can discredit anyone if you try hard enough but his name says it all.
There is only one other name in boxing ever that is at that level and its Ali. (and maybe Mayweather today if you want to throw it in there)
It isn’t just about the record. It’s the whole package and the way those special athletes transcended the sport for better or worse.
It’s Mike Fucking Tyson. That said you can pretty much stfu
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