Watching many of the lightweights and middle weights, I see lots of inversion and movements that require a ton of flexibility. the berimbolo and kiss of the dragon are two examples. Your average joe is probably not going to have the physicality to play these styles
This leaves a large disconnect between the high level guys and gym players. In the 90's and early 2000's this wasn't so. I felt like most game by the champs was in reach. However, when I watch miyaos, the mendes, cobrinha, etc I feel like they are doing a completely different sport.
I don't know if we can rectify this or if these are the musings of an old codger 
You've now reached the point where it's time to start demanding moves be banned.
Sit down, put your feet up, drink the delicious pure water. 
I think it's just a generational thing, to be honest.
Ask those who were there how many 50/50 guard pulls, berimbolo's, etc they saw at last week's Master's Worlds.
Average joes can play those styles, but I think that for the most part it is the new generation of BJJ that is doing it.
Yes to some degree. The great thing about BJJ has always been it could be done by the smaller and weaker person and I still believe in that. The average joe can still do a lot of that stuff but the below average joe will have a harder time. So yeah we won't see the below average joe winning the mundials anytime soon.
I think size has a lot to do with it, you touched on that in your opening sentence.
The bigger guys just aren't going to be as flexible or as quick as the smaller ones therefore different styles have developed. There's some exceptions of course.
You see this in college wrestling as well. The 125 weight class almost looks like a different sport compared to the 285.
It's funny, I was thinking the exact same thing when I was watching Metamoris IV. Other than Saulo and Medeiros and Josh Barnett nothing that anyone was doing looked very much like anything I recognize as jiu jitsu. I don't know if this to do with size/weight classes, a general evolution in the game, or more likely both.
ChipW - I think size has a lot to do with it, you touched on that in your opening sentence.
The bigger guys just aren't going to be as flexible or as quick as the smaller ones therefore different styles have developed. There's some exceptions of course.
You see this in college wrestling as well. The 125 weight class almost looks like a different sport compared to the 285.
Voted up. 125 wrestling looks almost like BJJ at times the way they scramble and tangle up on single leg takedowns. Part of the reason Askren was so successful was he used 'little guy' thinking in a 'bigger guy' weight class.
There's an older, bigger guy in my gym that I play 50/50 with all the time. It's a great challenge for me because he's half a foot taller and 50 pounds heavier... and he enjoys it because it allows him to be more skilled in that position.
I find the problem most people have with inverting isn't flexibility per se, but being comfortable when your lungs can't expand all the way out. They panic and stiffen up long before flexibility itself becomes a problem. Many people lack the 'spatial awareness' it takes to play/think upside down in that manner. It's a learned skill for sure.
Also, I know getting old can hinder flexibility to some extent but shouldn't that be a continuous goal for a martial art? To maintain flexibility? I don't see 'lack of flexibility' as a good excuse as it's one thing you can always train and practice on your own. I think people don't spend near the amount of time warming up, stretching, and working on flexibility that they should.
- Performing a berimbolo, kiss of the dragon or other inverted attacks does NOT require that much flexibility. You don't have to touch your knees to the mat, you're just rolling across the shoulders. It's not just a small man's game either; if Buchecha can berimbolo and play tornado guard like a mofo, it's not a body type issue.
2. Why is it unreasonable to expect someone who has been moderately serious about a combat sport for more than a year to have some modicum of flexibility/strength/agility/other physical attribute? Do you complain about the need for flexibility in freestyle wrestling or kickboxing? Or the need for cat-like acrobatic agility in high level competitive judo?
SidRon - CUO Doesn't 10th Planet require extreme flexibility to master as well?
My thoughts exactly.
Shemhazai - 1. Performing a berimbolo, kiss of the dragon or other inverted attacks does NOT require that much flexibility. You don't have to touch your knees to the mat, you're just rolling across the shoulders. It's not just a small man's game either; if Buchecha can berimbolo and play tornado guard like a mofo, it's not a body type issue.Take an entire class of 30 people. How many can execute a berimbolo in sparring after learning and practicing it
2. Why is it unreasonable to expect someone who has been moderately serious about a combat sport for more than a year to have some modicum of flexibility/strength/agility/other physical attribute? Do you complain about the need for flexibility in freestyle wrestling or kickboxing? Or the need for cat-like acrobatic agility in high level competitive judo?
Not out of reach, but then again, why would you ever want to utilize one of these styles? Most result in physiologically unsound positions, would be terribly vulnerable to strikes, and lend themselves less to finishing matches and more to earning arbitrary points under a very specific ruleset.
checkuroil -Shemhazai - 1. Performing a berimbolo, kiss of the dragon or other inverted attacks does NOT require that much flexibility. You don't have to touch your knees to the mat, you're just rolling across the shoulders. It's not just a small man's game either; if Buchecha can berimbolo and play tornado guard like a mofo, it's not a body type issue.Take an entire class of 30 people. How many can execute a berimbolo in sparring after learning and practicing it
2. Why is it unreasonable to expect someone who has been moderately serious about a combat sport for more than a year to have some modicum of flexibility/strength/agility/other physical attribute? Do you complain about the need for flexibility in freestyle wrestling or kickboxing? Or the need for cat-like acrobatic agility in high level competitive judo?
Most of them? Unless you're overweight or have some sort of injury history I think everyone who's healthy can learn to invert and I've seen tons of guys much older than me able to go upside down.
Soul Gravy - Not out of reach, but then again, why would you ever want to utilize one of these styles? Most result in physiologically unsound positions, would be terribly vulnerable to strikes, and lend themselves less to finishing matches and more to earning arbitrary points under a very specific ruleset.
Yep. This self-reflexive, rules specific "evolution" is part of why BJJ guys don't do nearly as well as wrestlers in MMA. Repeatedly, the ELITE BJJ guys go into MMA and disappoint.
BJJ, like TKD, is a combat sport that is getting too far away from the realities of limited rules fighting to be very useful. Wrestling makes a stronger case for being a better base art for MMA.
Take a world champion in BJJ and a world champion in wrestling, give them a couple years of MMA training and the wrestler is usually going to be the better MMA fighter.
I have been incorporating the kiss of the dragon when rolling with certain types of passers lately. I have good leg dexterity but am not overly flexible, if timed right it is a great way to take the back from the bottom.
Regular De la Riva hooks bother my knees though so I don't feel comfortable doing the berimbolo. If I can learn it though I'm sure anybody can.
Average Joe or world champion both are getting what they want from jiu jitsu. Both should be aware that they are not the other. Just because the average guy isn't bending like the Miyao brothers or moving like Cyborg, doesn't mean they can't have an effective game for them. Being a divisional winner or placing at a local comp can be just as satisfying to them as it is to Buchecha winning the open. Does it make a difference in the grand scheme of things? Of course! There is always a pecking order & there should be
I get that average joe will never be cobrinha. What I am pointing out is the huge disparity being creates
Practice a game you can do long term. We live in a society that at least 90% of people can't think past tomorrow.
If bjj is a life long pursuit. Why waste time doing things that take absolute athleticism to perfect? It will have diminishing returns as you age.
Perfect things that protect your body. Lot of the new generation is going to have a lot of physical issues as they age. Look at the miyao hands. Those kids are 20. They will have a severe case of arthritis. Screw the cat paw grip. Pistol grips for the win!
But as mentioned earlier. Figure out your weight class bc it's night and day different between feather and heavy. Different sports.
shen -Imo wrestling has always been the better base for mma. In 1997 Mark Kerr, who had a total of 4 minutes of mma experience in matches, whooped Fabio Gurgel who was the reigning bjj world champ. Granted there was a size difference but this was with old school rules where bjj is more suited too. Haven't watched the actual match thought but I'd imagine it was Kerr on top landing G&P.Soul Gravy - Not out of reach, but then again, why would you ever want to utilize one of these styles? Most result in physiologically unsound positions, would be terribly vulnerable to strikes, and lend themselves less to finishing matches and more to earning arbitrary points under a very specific ruleset.Yep. This self-reflexive, rules specific "evolution" is part of why BJJ guys don't do nearly as well as wrestlers in MMA. Repeatedly, the ELITE BJJ guys go into MMA and disappoint.
BJJ, like TKD, is a combat sport that is getting too far away from the realities of limited rules fighting to be very useful. Wrestling makes a stronger case for being a better base art for MMA.
Take a world champion in BJJ and a world champion in wrestling, give them a couple years of MMA training and the wrestler is usually going to be the better MMA fighter.
So I did a little experiment. I'm 6'4, 220lbs, and have the natural athletic ability of a Yorkshire pudding. I train a very basic/fundamental style of self-defense focused Jiu Jitsu, and have a history of bitching about shit like the berimbolo.
So I put all that to the side and just spent a little time giving it a go, with the goal of hitting a berimbolo back take in sparring.
Result of experiment? It's really just another sweep, and if you do the "just do a front roll" variation that the Mendes bros recommend, it requires zero flexibility. I'm not going to lie.
I felt kind of giddy when I finally did pull one off.
I also immediately felt like the creepy old guy arthritically shuffling around with glowsticks at the college aged rave.
I don't think that a lot of the "new" Jiu Jitsu necessarily requires crazy amounts of athleticism or whatever. But that doesn't mean that the new generation is not significantly more athletic on average. That's an important difference, and regardless of style an athletic player will ALWAYS have the upper hand over a non-athletic one (when all else is equal of course).
I see BJJ from a movement perspective and therefore I don´t like or practice moves which put my body in an structurally inferior or dangerous position.
For example inverted guard put my neck into a very unconfortable position and I am not able to be really structurally strong with a bent spine and neck.
I only use positions where I am able to control heavy loads with good bone structure and not depending on strength or extrem flexibility.
In my opinion thats the only way to do BJJ for a long time without killing the body.