I heard of no-gi BJJ, but I never heard of a no-gi Judo tournament division. I don't practice Judo yet so i'm pretty clueless about judo. Does such thing ever exist? Also if there is no such thing, do you ever spar no-gi judo just for fun anyway?
Perry
Yes, it's called freestyle wrestling.
HKA,
I didn't know freestyle wrestling did submissions.
Well it's freestyle wrestling minus the submissions.
some dojos will practice it. but there are no tournaments for it.
judo is based in the practical.. when was the last time you honestlygot into a fight with a naked guy?
And the Pin is much quicker in Freestyle.
Nah, there aren't No-Gi tourneys for Judo, and up until about five years ago, there weren't no-gi tourneys for BJJ either.
Hey, when I'm chilling on the beach, sipping on those cute little drinks with little paper umbrellas, some naked crack-head may jump me.
lol at Joshua's comment but very true - fighting a guy with clothes is a lot more realistic than no gi grappling or no gi MMA
All of the techniques I could use against an opponent in a freestyle wrestling match without a Gi, I could also do the same with a gi. All of the techniques that I practice with a Gi, cant really be used in a no-gi match though. Freestyle wrestling is not dependant on anything other than your opponent's body.
suplex, i disagree..
you just havent found a way to make th throws you do in judo work no-gi. really, about the only throw i absolutley think cannot be done no-gi is sode-tsur-koki-goshi.
we know all the hip throws work, the seionages work, the foot techniques work, the takedowns work, the counters work, the sacrifice throws--well, some work better than others.
a good number of them are already done in wrestling, they just look different. same is true with srwstling stuff in judo-- just looks different.
I think the gi is cool, but is a gi really the same as a person wearing jeans and t-shirt? When I think reality, i think something in between gi and no-gi.
Perry H: T shirt and Jeans isn't applicable, for most of the US, people wear jackets and hoodies 8 months out of the year.
In fact, in all of the us, more people are wearing Jackets at night than not.
You can absolutely choke someone out with a T-shirt. And more often than not these day, jeans are more baggy than Gi pants...hang'n halfway down people's asses! LOL
Wearing the gi in judo is exactly the same reason why the best bjj'ers in the world swear that gi training makes their groundwork better.
A slower more technical game, your opponent has more control on you, you become aware of protecting your neck and arms by keeping good posture. ...
When you understand the principles of kuzushi, tsukuri and kake with the gi you will not have a problem adapting to no gi, but the reverse will not be true most of the time.
BIC said: When you understand the principles of kuzushi, tsukuri and kake with the gi you will not have a problem adapting to no gi, but the reverse will not be true most of the time.I don't quite agree with this, I've had a few good wrestlers over the years train with me and while they might not be able to explain it, they understand the idea of grip fighting (getting that inside grip) and kazushi.
if you are good with the gi you might be able to transfer that to no gi.. it all very much depends on the ability for each person to "adapt" to something new.. being good with a gi does not mean youll be goo without and being good in nogi does sure as hell not mean youllbe good in a gi.
the techniques can be adopted, there is no question in that, the question is if the person can adapt.
the pracicality of the judogi compared to streeth clothes.. well, lets just say it is 100% closer to real life than no gi. ive thrown people in tshirts and ive thrown people in jackets. pants are pants.. if anything there might even be a belt and pockets to grip into. its rare that you actually GRAB the pants below the knee anyways so even shorts are applicable.
now, streetclothes are not gonna hold-up if it comes down to a matter of grip-fighting, but that is honestly not gonna be an issue in this type of a scenario.
I agree with much of what has been said on this post but I would like to make a few points.
Before I say anything else I want to make a point of the fact that I have been a wrestler, Folkstyle and Freestyle, my entire life and thus have a great love and affinity for the sport. Now that I have said that, let me begin.
Someone on here said that Freestyle Wrestling is, essentially, no-gi Judo, only that it lacks submissions. I disagree.
The rules in Freestyle, i.e. the ways to score, time restrictions, etc., make it a different beast. In order for Freestyle wrestling to be considered "no-gi Judo", it would have to, at a minimum, adopt Judo criteria and standard for awarding points to throws.
Just because of the fact that alot of the techinques in Judo are used in Freestyle Wrestling does not make it "no-gi" Judo, because even the way the moves are performed is different in many instasnces because there is a certain balance, beauty, flow, and careful attention to precision that is found in the way the throws that have equivalents in Freestyle Wrestling and Judo, e.g. Hip Toss and an Ogoshi, are performed in Judo that is not always found in Freestyle Wrestling because of the rules. In freestyle wrestling, even if you peform a very ugly throw/takedown, you still get at least your 1 point and most people are quite content with getting that one point and are not necessarily making it a top priority to go for Freestyle wrestling's equivalent of "Ippon", the Touch Fall. Just compare a typical match at the highest levels of both sports, Freestyle Wrestling and Judo, and compare the number of throws, sweeps, etc., seen or even attempted in both of these sports and you will see what I mean, and this is a direct by-product of the rules.
In Freestyle WRestling, by far the takedown that is most attempted and scores are leg dives, i.e. Double leg takedowns, High Crotches, Single leg takedowns, and low singles. Most of these are not to be found in Judo, precisely because how these moves are executed would not score in Judo. For those who may disagree, just look at a low single leg takedown. You shoot, reach low for a person's ankle and drive them back on their butt...certainly not a technique that would score in Judo.
continued.....
Some may say that the "Morote-gari", I believe it is called, is seen both Freestyle Wrestling and in Judo and is basically the Double leg takedown. I whole-heartedly disagree. Even though it is true that the double leg takedown can be performed in Freestyle WRestling in the same manner that Judo's "Morote-gari" is performed, 99% of the time, at the highest levels of the sport, this is not the case, precisely because, given the RULES in Freestyle Wrestling, it would require too much effort for too little reward. Again, this makes the moves quite different, or at least the way that they will be performed, because of the difference in the rules.
What I have cited above is in no way to try to claim that Judo moves are in applicable in any context outside of Judo performed while wearing the gi, but to prove that Freestyle Wrestling cannot be considered to be no-gi Judo. What makes any move a "Judo" move, is whether or not the performance of that move is permitted under Judo rules. And although all the moves in Judo and permitted in Freestyle Wrestling, it is because Freestyle Wrestling allows many moves to be performed under its rules that would be illegal under Judo, it cannot be considered to be "no-gi" Judo, even in its "Stand up" phase, just like Muay Thai or K-1 cannot be considered boxing simply because all the techniques of boxing can be performed under their rules given that many other things are permitted in K-1 and Muay Thai that aren't permitted in boxing, not to mention the differences in format period.
I have wrestled my entire life, but I find myself falling in love with Judo at a rapid pace. My father was a Freestyle Wrestler who competed at the highest levels of the sport for 12 years and was also a Judoka ever since he entered the army when he was 18. His style of Wrestling is also totally no-gi Judo performed under Freestyle Wrestling moves and it is because of his style of wrestling, which he always says is heavily influenced by Judo, and because of some of the recent Judo competition that I have seen, that I have developed a great love and admiration for the sport and its practitioners, so I hope no one will think that I am just another wrestler coming on here to bash Judo. I am not.
But I would like to see the introduction of "no-gi" Judo, just like we now, more or less, have "no-gi" BJJ, which has proven itself to be as exciting if not more than BJJ with the gi and is also a slightly different in which, because of the lack of the gi, you can and cannot do certain things which makes it quite interesting. To have "no-gi" Judo, all you have to do is keep all the rules the same, from groundwork to scoring, except take away the gi. I'm sure the matches would be very interesting, fast-paced, and would become a new sport to which grappler from all different "traditional" grappling backgrounds could compete against one another in much the same way that Submission Grappling tournaments have allowed for grapplers from all different "traditional" grappling arts to compete against one another on a fairly even playing field, at least on the ground.
continued....
I think it would also prove beneficial for traditional Judokas to participate in these tournaments to better prepare them, if they should ever wish, to compete in MMA because they'd learn far ahead of time how to modify their game for a no-gi context.
I also think it would benefit the wrestlers in the country. Wrestling coaches constantly encourage wrestlers to wrestle in the international styles in their off-seasons because when they wrestle an international style like say, Greco (which is already quite similar to Judo), they learn about body positioning, throwing techniques, etc., to a much greater degree than they would in Folkstyle, because the rules limit what they can and cannot do. So when these wrestlers come back to Folkstyle, they are much more well-rounded and can incorporate more throws and upperbody wrestling into their Folkstyle. Likewise, if we were to have no-gi Judo, I think american Folkstyle wrestlers would not only incorporate more upper body techniques and throws like they do after wrestling in Greco or Freestyle in an off-season, but they would also improve their foot sweeps, blocks, and trips, leg wrestling being a serious weakness among American Wrestlers.
I'm sorry for making this post so long, but I just began writin gand couldn't stop.
I come from a slightly different situation. I started learning withour the jacket, and now that I am working in a gi, I am having problems.
The big difference i see is that with the gi, people are able to stiff arm you so that you cannot get close enough to throw.
With out the gi, it's pretty easy to get your throws off a standard neck and collar tie.
I enjoy practicing both.