smoogy - Actually, none of that should factor in. Guys like Brown and Faber aren't WEC employees, they are independent contractors, so what concern is it of theirs whether or not WEC is profitable?
If an organization isn't profitable and goes under . . . hello IFL, EliteXC, and soon to be Affliction. I think fighters like being able to fight and make money, without their contracts being put up for auction, don't you?
Lets keep it simple here. How many seats do they sell at Arco without that main event? In this economy and without the leverage of a recognizable brand like UFC, I'm guessing not many. Frank Shamrock has a contract which is tied to the live gate when he fights at the HP Pavilion... Brown and Faber should be pointing to that and saying "I deserve the same type of deal".
That's up to Brown and Faber and their management to make that deal. What concern of it is yours? Not every fighter will get the same deal as Shamrock.
Again, its pretty simple. Prize fighting isn't a charity. Guys like Brown and Faber should demand what they are worth, not what WEC can afford.
As far as my interest in this... someone made a thread about it and I'm giving my opinion. Does that upset you? Yes, Shamrock is somewhat unique in terms of contract structure, but if I'm Urijah Faber's management, I would point to that deal as the standard for a popular fighter who is selling out arenas based on his name recognition.
Again, its pretty simple. Prize fighting isn't a charity. Guys like Brown and Faber should demand what they are worth, not what WEC can afford.
So what they make and what they don't make that's reported is charity money? They are working for free?
As far as my interest in this... someone made a thread about it and I'm giving my opinion. Does that upset you? Yes, Shamrock is somewhat unique in terms of contract structure, but if I'm Urijah Faber's management, I would point to that deal as the standard for a popular fighter who is selling out arenas based on his name recognition.
I just think its ridiculous that people are so hung up on how much these guys are getting paid considering some years ago they were not getting paid anywhere near these amounts. Also, that they don't know how much extra money they make from other revenue streams.
Also the arena was not a sell out. Probably a good number of those 13,000 in attendance were comped or papered in. If the gate was less than $900K, then ticket prices are clearly nowhere near as high as your typical UFC event.
Actually, none of that should factor in. Guys like Brown and Faber aren't WEC employess, they are independent contractors, so what concern is it of theirs whether or not WEC is profitable?
Of course costs factor in. If the costs are too high than the WEC won't produce an event. If MMA companies aren't very profitable, less companies will enter into MMA.. the entire pie shrinks which in turn shrinks the fighter's bargaining power to get a large slice of the pie.
What I'm saying is, that stuff should not worry headlining fighters like Brown and Faber. If their contracts were up and DREAM/Sengoku came in with offers of 150k per fight, and WEC cried poverty and said they can only afford 40k+40k, what do you think would happen? The fighters cannot and will not squander their value for the sake of the company's health.
And TheVileOne... if you were the headliner on a show that did a 900k gate, and most of the ticket sales could be attributed to your name being on the marquee, how would you feel if your purse was less than 1/20th of that amount?
Forget all this "unreported revenue" talk for a second. Their purse is their purse. Sponsorships and things like that are gravy for the fighters, they don't offset money they should be making as part of their purse. Maybe they are getting extra money from discretionary bonuses, but that is hardly a secure or fair system for the fighters. They could get a 100k bonus, they could get nothing. It is entirely up to the execs holding the purse strings. Instead of shady locker room bonuses, it would be nice to see the purses more closely reflect the actual worth of fighters like Brown and Faber.
smoogy - What I'm saying is, that stuff should not worry headlining fighters like Brown and Faber. If their contracts were up and DREAM/Sengoku came in with offers of 150k per fight, and WEC cried poverty and said they can only afford 40k+40k, what do you think would happen? The fighters cannot and will not squander their value for the sake of the company's health.
Then why aren't they taking these amazing $150K per fight offers from Dream and Sengoku smoogy?
And TheVileOne... if you were the headliner on a show that did a 900k gate, and most of the ticket sales could be attributed to your name being on the marquee, how would you feel if your purse was less than 1/20th of that amount?
If I had wheels and pedals I would also be a bicycle. OK. here we go. If it was me, I'm not dumb enough to assume if the gate is around $900K, that all the money is going into the bank to make the rich fat cats richer.
Forget all this "unreported revenue" talk for a second. Their purse is their purse. Sponsorships and things like that are gravy for the fighters, they don't offset money they should be making as part of their purse. Maybe they are getting extra money from discretionary bonuses, but that is hardly a secure or fair system for the fighters. They could get a 100k bonus, they could get nothing. It is entirely up to the execs holding the purse strings. Instead of shady locker room bonuses, it would be nice to see the purses more closely reflect the actual worth of fighters like Brown and Faber.
All your bullshit aside. If Brown fights one or two more times this year he could be making around $100,000 or more which is a hell of a lot more money than I will ever see in the foreseeable future. That's well above what the average adult male makes in this country. And that's pretty freaking good.
lol i was looking at the thread with the gifs of cub swansons cut onj his forehead after the aldo knee and the first thing that popped in my ehad was damn he prolly made less than what its gonna cost him to fix that like kalib starne3s was complainign about
smoogy - What I'm saying is, that stuff should not worry headlining fighters like Brown and Faber. If their contracts were up and DREAM/Sengoku came in with offers of 150k per fight, and WEC cried poverty and said they can only afford 40k+40k, what do you think would happen? The fighters cannot and will not squander their value for the sake of the company's health.
Then why aren't they taking these amazing $150K per fight offers from Dream and Sengoku smoogy?
And TheVileOne... if you were the headliner on a show that did a 900k gate, and most of the ticket sales could be attributed to your name being on the marquee, how would you feel if your purse was less than 1/20th of that amount?
If I had wheels and pedals I would also be a bicycle. OK. here we go. If it was me, I'm not dumb enough to assume if the gate is around $900K, that all the money is going into the bank to make the rich fat cats richer.
Forget all this "unreported revenue" talk for a second. Their purse is their purse. Sponsorships and things like that are gravy for the fighters, they don't offset money they should be making as part of their purse. Maybe they are getting extra money from discretionary bonuses, but that is hardly a secure or fair system for the fighters. They could get a 100k bonus, they could get nothing. It is entirely up to the execs holding the purse strings. Instead of shady locker room bonuses, it would be nice to see the purses more closely reflect the actual worth of fighters like Brown and Faber.
All your bullshit aside. If Brown fights one or two more times this year he could be making around $100,000 or more which is a hell of a lot more money than I will ever see in the foreseeable future. That's well above what the average adult male makes in this country. And that's pretty freaking good.
You keep moving farther and farther from the issue, but for the sake of argument:
a) If those offers come, we'll see what happens. Torres, Faber and Brown have all spoken to the media about their issues with their WEC purses.
b) "I'm not dumb enough to assume if the gate is around $900K, that all the money is going into the bank to make the rich fat cats richer."
Good for you. Not sure what that has to do with anything though.
c) I doubt the Browns and Fabers of the world would leave money on the table because 100,000k in a year is more than the average person makes. Again, this is business, not charity.
c) I doubt the Browns and Fabers of the world would leave money on the table because 100,000k in a year is more than the average person makes. Again, this is business, not charity.
1. Prove to me money is being left on the table.
2. In this economy, that's not charity.
3. Calling it charity is bullshit. And if it is, its time to go into another profession that isn't charity.
"Stupid article.The WEC doesn't draw in the PPV dollars the UFC does,so of course they deserve less.RULE NUMBER ONE at any job,the more money you bring to a company,the more money you are worth."
True, but there are actors on shitty shows that get lower ratings than WEC on VS who are paid quite a bit more than $25,000 per episode, and their shows' revenue isn't supplemented by live gates -- and they don't have to train for 8 weeks per paycheck.
orcus - True. Or fold the WEC into the UFC. Or just see talented 145 and 135ers fighting guys who dwarf them at 155 in an attempt to make some decent money.
WEC and Versus have a TV contract that goes through 2011.
"It blows. There should be a minimum for the belts holders, at $50,000, but that's pretty low still, IMO. "
And what are you arbitrarily basing that number on?
"Actually, none of that should factor in. Guys like Brown and Faber aren't WEC employess, they are independent contractors, so what concern is it of theirs whether or not WEC is profitable?"
Because if it isn't profitable, they have nowhere to fight. Ask the guys that fought for IFL... Ask Tara LaRosa about her half million contract and where it went...
Simple economics. They can ask for whatever they want and price themselves out of the market. The fact is they will earn what they are worth and what the market can bare. This shouldn't be a big mystery after we have seen what happened with IFL, AFL or AFC or whatever it was, Elite, etc...
They can ask whatever they feel they are worth. A promotion will pay them what they feel they are worth. The market and simple economics will weed it out. Fighters that think they are worth more than they are will not be fighting (I have known a few of these guys personally that had grossly inflated images of their self worth only to watch them sink like the Titanic) and promotions that have an inflated self worth and in turn promise fighters more than they can generate in revenue also go belly up, like the above mentioned promotions.
"Again, its pretty simple. Prize fighting isn't a charity. Guys like Brown and Faber should demand what they are worth, not what WEC can afford."
They will then go back to working their day jobs like so many before them...
"I like how people always mention these arbitrary minimums which make absolutely no sense. "
My thoughts exactly!!
"Then why aren't they taking these amazing $150K per fight offers from Dream and Sengoku smoogy?"
My thoughts exactly!!
"...an objective arbitrary statement like that ..."
You are making an arbitrary statement that fighters should make X amount but it's based on absolutely nothing but personal opinion and is very subjective. It isn't objective, meaning you have no foundational basis of stats and info to base the statement off of. It's like me saying "Hell, Randy Couture ought to make 10 million dollars a year!!!". Why should he make that much? What am I basing that statement off of? Is it simply because I like the guy?
"lol i was looking at the thread with the gifs of cub swansons cut onj his forehead after the aldo knee and the first thing that popped in my ehad was damn he prolly made less than what its gonna cost him to fix that like kalib starne3s was complainign about "
Actually, most all states that have athletic commissions and many that use 3rd party sanctioning orgs like ISCF are required to have insurance for the fighters and the promoters pay the deductibles. Therefore, injuries like that usually cost the fighter nothing. If you are fighting in a show that doesn't have insurance for the fighters then blame no one but yourself if you wind up with a huge medical bill.
"Again, this is business, not charity."
Very wise words. Maybe you should look at them from a different angle...
"True, but there are actors on shitty shows that get lower ratings than WEC on VS who are paid quite a bit more than $25,000 per episode, and their shows' revenue isn't supplemented by live gates -- and they don't have to train for 8 weeks per paycheck."
Then cry me a river. Maybe these fighters should go into shitty acting if they think they chose the wrong hobby and training for 8 weeks is too much work. Hell, I figured fighters fought because they loved fighting, not for the money. Anyone that gets into professional fighting for the money is retarded.
"Simple solution then orcus. Join the Roger Huerta club and become an actor on a shitty TV show."