The whole movie is available for download here:
The whole movie is available for download here:
I laugh when people act like this is child abuse. I wish I could have been raised by Christians. It would have lessened the mistakes I made in my own life. Im also glad that the state of Kansas has to teach Intelligent Design alongside evolution. Im ammused that people are so scared of the salt of the earth.
IB we unfortunately live in a Post Christian world so it's ruled by fear and ignorance.
Why do you guys want the US to be Christian anyway? It just compromises the faith.
"Why do you guys want the US to be Christian anyway?"
What do you have against kids learning about the Lord? The US is just a landmass, I want everybody, everywhere to accept the Lord Jesus and His death on the cross. If they dont they go to hell. Do you not want people to come to the faith?
Did you even watch the film? The issue is forcing non-Christian people to live by Christian values when they don't want to. Why would you try to force a non-Christian to live like a Christian when they don't even have the benefit of God's grace?
Thanks for the link Ridgeback, I was curious about that movie.
This brings up something I'd touched on before here. The people in that film - the lady running it, the kids etc -
are being filled with the holy spirit. That makes it entirely reasonable for them to conclude they are doing the right thing. (After all, God himself seems to be coming down and giving his stamp of approval).
So...why should any other Christian frown upon what they are doing? God isn't.
"Did you even watch the film? The issue is forcing non-Christian people to live by Christian values when they don't want to."
Yes I did watch it. Christian values are good values. What do we allow people to get away with murder becuase they are not Christians? Or steal? To live in a peaceful society we must run the society by revealed Scripture. The same Christian laws for the just and the unjust.
Bludhall the kids in the movie were homeschooled. Homeschool is superior to public school. They were learning Creation. I tell my daughter that God created the earth. When we go to the park and feed the ducks, I point out how God made the ducks. I dont preach to her about evolution, she is only 6 years old. But when she gets older I feel it would be neglect not to tell her of the evil lie that is evolution, and how she has a Father in Heaven named Jesus who created her in his image. I will tell her to pass the science tests, tell them what they want to hear. If the Lord tarries. The Lord may have come back by the time she is in Jr. High and she will not have to waste her time learning Mythology.
"So...why should any other Christian frown upon what they are doing?"
I do not frown sir. God is calling out a people for his name. Jesus Christ said
Mat 19:14 But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.
The book of Proverbs declares
Pro 22:6 Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.
Is the experience genuine or something people can talk themselves into through techniques? I don't want to denigrate the charismatics on here, because I do love and respect them, but at least some charismatics are just creating their experiences and I think most of the ones on this board will admit that this happens. Nothing in scripture leads me to believe that the manifestation of the Holy Spirit can be triggered by simple technique.
But there are practical ways to know what is genuine. First of all I look at their fruits. I personally saw a lot of arrogance surrounding the whole affair. I saw a lack of genuine love for non-believers both in the sense that not once did I hear a single word about charity for the poor and sick and imprisoned and in the sense that they were taught that non-Christians were yucky and unclean. This is not how Jesus, St. Peter, St. James, St. Paul, or any of the early Christian writers treated non-Christians. A large number of people converted to Christianity simply because they saw concrete acts of love. Maybe this film was edited that way, but I didn't see anything like that being taught. The witnessing methods were not relational, they were like sales pitches. How can you talk to people about the most intimate issues of the heart when you don't know them and you have about 60 seconds to wrap it up?
There are other things like wrong doctrine and a lack of awareness of the ecclesia and its importance in the Christian life (as opposed to all individual experience) but it won't do much good to bring it up here.
"I want all the schools in the united states to teach christian religion like its a subject"
Man, you almost got me with that...I was typing out a reply and everything before I realized who it was from.
Well, Ridgeback, putting aside my quibbles I respect that you bring in an intellectual approach to combine with the experience/emotional. That is, using your reason (as applied to scripture as well) to help guide, explain and hopefully winnow through religious experience. This is very much how I think of morality, btw.
Ridgeback you go to a dead Church. You need the Spirit.
The first Pope Peter was a Pentecostal
Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
Were you baptized in Jesus Name? Did you get the gift of the Holy Ghost that was promised to you and your children? Peter is proper ecclesia isnt he?
"So will you guys be happy when we have a catholic church in veevry school or what? thats teaching people about jesus isn;t it?"
I would rather a kid learn some of the false doctrine in the Catholic Church, than learn scientific mythology, communism, homosexuality, and abortion, how to live an immoral lifestyle and have no respect for their elders. The Catholic Church has a lot of the Truth. It would be a lot better for a child to learn from Catholics, instead of secular humanists.
Given the charges of immorality you just included about us non-believers, would you mind telling me precisely in what way I am immoral?
I think the schools should be privatized...statist schools are horrific. then they can teach what they want.
I do not want the govt teaching specific, exclusive Christian doctrine...I just want our country governed by Judeo/Christian traditions as opposed to humanism, or islam etc and to not have hostility towards Christianity.
Bludhall, my children will learn evolution and scientific creationism and intelligent design. They will also learn mythology. they will learn a variety of subjects so that they know what all the competing philsophies and sciences say about our origins.
We are not afraid to have the truth compete with other "isms...we just want them to be able to compete...
Again, if you privatize, then you don't have to worry about what your kids are being taught. Catholics kids go to a catholic school, baptists to baptists, humanists to humanists, etc.
"Given the charges of immorality you just included about us non-believers, would you mind telling me precisely in what way I am immoral?"
The kids of today are taught being homosexual is a good thing, that killing babies is a right, that having sex outside of marriage is ok, etc. These things are immoral.
"Again, if you privatize, then you don't have to worry about what your kids are being taught. Catholics kids go to a catholic school, baptists to baptists, humanists to humanists, etc."
I like this idea.
"We are not afraid to have the truth compete with other "isms...we just want them to be able to compete..."
I totally agree with this as well.
---"The kids of today are taught being homosexual is a good thing, that killing babies is a right, that having sex outside of marriage is ok, etc. These things are immoral."
Well I don't go around telling anyone to "kill babies" or
preach that "homosexuality it good" or "have sex outside of marriage."
But about your moral reasons: Do you have any other reason to call these things "wrong" aside from IndianaBrandon believes "God says so?"
"Ridgeback is an orthodox christian IB, i'll lay $20 on the table right now that says you don't know anything about orthdoxy."
I admit I dont. I go by the Bible. And what the Spirit has revealed to me. But he had no problem putting down Pentecostals.
Prof regardless of what I think or believe, what does the Word of God say?
---"Prof regardless of what I think or believe, what does the Word of God say?"
That's just it. I may point to one passage to indicate "God says X" and you'll point to another to say "No, you've got it wrong, God says Y."
So in the end it DOES come down to what YOU believe about God - on how YOU interpret what the Bible says. If asking "What does God say?"...actually worked to understand His will and resolve dispute, you wouldn't have over 30,000 competing Christian sects. Virtually all of them start with "What Does The Word Of God Say?"
Only, the unavoidability of individual interpretation
results in different beliefs, derived from the same text.