I was listening to a recent jre podcast and he's talking about PEDs . Saying if you were ever on steroids at any point of your life you'll be forever stronger . Is this true ? Considering once your off the juice all your hormone levels essentially will be slightly lower than they were when you never juiced, so once your done your cycle all hormones are lower than they were before you juiced . So how does that make sense? 
Because you've already built the muscle. It's far easier to maintain muscle then build it.
I could be wrong but if you just stop cold turkey even if you are training hard you'll still lose mass and I imagine strength along with it. It would stand to reason that you would maintain much of those strength gains tho. Rogan would know he's on them
Elyrain - Because you've already built the muscle. It's far easier to maintain muscle then build it.You don't keep steroid gains once you come off
That thread title has a nice double meaning.
grady -False.Elyrain - Because you've already built the muscle. It's far easier to maintain muscle then build it.You don't keep steroid gains once you come off
norcal3737 -Not false. Unless you use a pct and/or jump on another stack, eventually you will lose your gains. It may take up to 6 months but it will happengrady -False.Elyrain - Because you've already built the muscle. It's far easier to maintain muscle then build it.You don't keep steroid gains once you come off
grady -norcal3737 -Not false. Unless you use a pct and/or jump on another stack, eventually you will lose your gains. It may take up to 6 months but it will happengrady -False.Elyrain - Because you've already built the muscle. It's far easier to maintain muscle then build it.You don't keep steroid gains once you come off
When would you ever not do a PCT?
Beelze -I was just stating the obvious because I think the last reply needed itgrady -norcal3737 -Not false. Unless you use a pct and/or jump on another stack, eventually you will lose your gains. It may take up to 6 months but it will happengrady -False.Elyrain - Because you've already built the muscle. It's far easier to maintain muscle then build it.You don't keep steroid gains once you come off
When would you ever not do a PCT?
I understand you'll keep some gains for a few months . But Joe is saying you'll forever be a "different breed" and forever be stronger , which I feel like after a year of no juice all gains would be gone
From experience I think you do retain a certain amount of your gains if you continuously lift after you come off. I'd say maybe 15 - 20% of your gains? Maybe a bit more. Of course it depends on what you were on, etc. I don't know the bro science behind it but I do believe that's true to a degree.
this was a great thread change my mind about some thing. now im willing to say steroid user's should be banned for 24 month's instead of the 36 month's i was suggesting before. I still hold to my belief that they should have to pass 24 random ped test/cir before being reinstated
you would almost certainly keep at least some of the gains. I remember reading Canseco say he thought keeping 80% of gains was possible. That might be too high, but I think you are at least keeping a percent of the gains if you continue to lift hard and eat well.
Willin -The issue is how much muscle would you have gained naturally? If you gained 15lbs of muscle on a cycle and you maintain 2lbs when you come off... Do you believe that 2lbs was due to your cycle?
From experience I think you do retain a certain amount of your gains if you continuously lift after you come off. I'd say maybe 15 - 20% of your gains? Maybe a bit more. Of course it depends on what you were on, etc. I don't know the bro science behind it but I do believe that's true to a degree.
If you've maxed out natty for years and you do a cycle and you gain 10lbs of lean size and drop the cycle... Say no pct or anything. In 6 months you will lose that 10lbs of muscle
http://nattyornot.com/can-keep-gains-steroid-cycle/
Bios3 RAW TV Keeping Steroid Gains!: http://youtu.be/5aRx5DhlI88
You will lose the gains
There are studies which indicate that steroid users may indeed have lifelong advantage even after discontinuance
I've summarized these here:
http://combatsportslaw.com/2014/01/27/ped-abuse-and-suspension-timelines-in-mixed-martial-arts/
-Links to studies here
http://www.the-aps.org/mm/hp/Audiences/Public-Press/Archive/08/30.html
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1113/jphysiol.2013.264457/abstract
grady - http://nattyornot.com/can-keep-gains-steroid-cycle/
Bios3 RAW TV Keeping Steroid Gains!: http://youtu.be/5aRx5DhlI88
You will lose the gains
Grady, I respect that everybody has their own opinions, and admit I didn't read your link. But I will say this; their is an absolute shit ton of information on the internet, from people with experience from this type of thing, who say that you can and will keep significant gains if you train and eat properly.
Willin -Agree w this
From experience I think you do retain a certain amount of your gains if you continuously lift after you come off. I'd say maybe 15 - 20% of your gains? Maybe a bit more. Of course it depends on what you were on, etc. I don't know the bro science behind it but I do believe that's true to a degree.
ufc98newb -I know plenty of guys who have cycled and stated the same thing. Only to find out that they were still using... Something. These are the people that LIEgrady - http://nattyornot.com/can-keep-gains-steroid-cycle/
Bios3 RAW TV Keeping Steroid Gains!: http://youtu.be/5aRx5DhlI88
You will lose the gains
Grady, I respect that everybody has their own opinions, and admit I didn't read your link. But I will say this; their is an absolute shit ton of information on the internet, from people with experience from this type of thing, who say that you can and will keep significant gains if you train and eat properly.
grady -Willin -From experience I think you do retain a certain amount of your gains if you continuously lift after you come off. I'd say maybe 15 - 20% of your gains? Maybe a bit more. Of course it depends on what you were on, etc. I don't know the bro science behind it but I do believe that's true to a degree.
<span class="User-235150" id="userPost52495087">The issue is how much muscle would you have gained naturally? If you gained 15lbs of muscle on a cycle and you maintain 2lbs when you come off... Do you believe that 2lbs was due to your cycle?<br /> <br /> If you've maxed out natty for years and you do a cycle and you gain 10lbs of lean size and drop the cycle... Say no pct or anything. In 6 months you will lose that 10lbs of muscle <img alt="Phone Post 3.0" border="0" src="/images/phone/droid.png" style="vertical-align:middle;" /></span></blockquote>
I mean there are way better experts than me (Eggbert) but from my limited experience about 10 years ago when I was in college I did a double stack of andro when it was sold at GNC. I started probably around 165. Ballooned up to about 193lbs and built like a truck. Was squatting 395lbs 2 reps (which is a lot for my chicken legs), benching 295lbs 2 reps, military press with 105lbs for 4 reps, and dumbbell curl sets with 65lbs.
After the cycle I lost about 10lbs pretty quickly. I then settled around 173lbs at that time? I'm not saying that net 8lbs increase is all because of the andro but it certainly helped. It definitely changed my physique a bit to this day. Thicker. Solider. Tighter.
By the way I didn't know much about post cycle so I took something that should have helped. It probably did but I've never felt so horrible in my life for a few months after coming off. Brutal stuff. Started losing my hair, angry, extremely depressed, etc. Never have done it again. I don't recommend it. Feel great nowadays though and have long flowing locks!