Id say the difference is that GSP repeatedly did those buys…where as Jones, even with all the hype that he tries to generate and the UFC pushes, has rarely surpassed 600k. The DC fight numbers were the exception, not the norm. And those got massive push from the UFC hype machine.
GSP vs Bisping didnt even get that much of a promotional push from the UFC from what I recall,…and still did almost 900k. Point is, Jones just isnt that popular and has continually turned fans off to the point that many just dont give a shit about him or feel any sort of sympathy for him
You’re missing the point. They all get a base salary plus PPV points. However, when Jon headlines an event that does 860K buys, he gets $5M. When GSP headlines an event that does 875K buys, he gets $10M. Jon wants a better deal so that when his event sells extremely well, he’s getting a bigger %.
He doesn’t want to have to sell 1.7M buys to make the same money other guys get for selling 875K.
Unlike other sports where how you play on the field matters most, how well you sell determines how guys are paid. It makes total sense given the UFC’s business model, but we’ve seen fighters talking lately about how much they make relative to how much they sell, and Jon appears to be getting less of a % than other big name guys.
but again, you’re missing the point. You said it yourself, how well they sold on a given day years ago doesn’t matter…how well the next event sells is what matters and that’s the issue. Jon’s deal allows him to make $5M for an event that does $860K buys, and GSP’s deal allows him to make $10M for an event that does 875K buys, Jon wants a bigger % so he doesn’t have to do tons more buys to make the same money a guy like GSP gets to sell 875K PPVs.
Imagine how much money Jones has cost the UFC compared to GSP? GSP deserves to make more the Jones for not causing so much drama and canceling it f events like Jones has done in his career.
Of course, more data points would make for a better discussion, but we’ll never have that level of data, so we can only really talk about the information available…and we’re just bullshitting on an internet forum, so we should be able to come up with some type of opinion with the info we know, right?
So what do you think? If GSP made 10M for an event that did 875K buys, and Jon made $5M for one that did 860K buys…should Jon be content with his current deal?
That just means that GSP had a better team that negotiated points. As you know, when PPV points are paid they are paid in tiers. So its pretty obvious that GSP had a better negotiating team than Jon when it came to how much each tier would pay. Also, according to the Kawas, Jon negotiated his own contract. So he can only blame himself for it. NO sympathy here for him. He also tossed out his main leverage in getting PPV points, the title. UFC is under no obligation to pay a non champion any PPV points. So again, Jon has only himself to blame. Either sign or retire i say.
GSP made $10MM for a SUPER FIGHT in a NEW weight class.
The EXACT SAME THING Jon is saying $10MM isn’t nearly enough for.
I don’t know what to say dude if that’s not enough for you.
If you’re so keen on comparing apples to apples then guess what, Jon moving up to fight for the title in an entirely new weight class is the same as GSP doing it, but your boy Jon wants to be paid multiples of what Georges’ made, on similar PPV numbers no less, which you love to quote.
You won’t like my answer, but I don’t have enough data to say.
Now of course, I could see why Jon might be upset. This is why the UFC or pretty much any for-profit company doesn’t want employees comparing pay. For one, they will pay as little as they can, and two, there are many intangibles that the UFC hold high that fighters probably don’t care about (e.g. market goals, long vs short-term gain, etc.).
I wonder what fans would value JJ vs GSP? I have a feeling GSP is held in higher regard by fans in general and if it was up to them they would pay him more. Just a random though but I do think it carries some weight no matter how small for this discussion of hypotheticals.
I don’t think who the fans prefer to pay matters at all, only who they actually choose to pay by ordering the PPV. Also, it’s not necessarily about Jon being upset or not. If I’m Jon, I fucking LOVE that GSP came out talking about this today. It’s all a negotiation, even the UFC saying Derrick Lewis would fight Francis next is a negotiation…because if that was the fight they were going with, it would have been announced, and Francis wouldn’t be out there talking about how he wants Jon next.
It’s clear the deal is still being discussed, and now Jon’s management has another data point they can point to.
Jon vs Francis is such an obvious fight, and it’s the perfect time for it. If Jon wins, great…you have the GOAT moving up a weight class and winning the belt over a monster, and his defenses against contenders will sell well. If Francis wins, great…now you have a dominant champion who just beat the GOAT. Either scenario is the lead story on sportscenter.
Rick, just asking a question here. Do you think that Jones’ out of ring behaviour has undermined his bargaining power at all? If we’re doing a comparison with GSP, let’s consider some of the other details. GSP has never undermined his bargaining power so he’s always come to the table with a strong hand. Another detail: what did GSP make immediately before the 10mil deal? The UFC has a pay grid, and while I acknowledge that the grid is probably meaningless for the big names, there’s a principle behind the grid: you don’t just jump up 100% unless you have a very strong hand to play. So what was GSP’s jump that hit 10mil?
The fact that Nike dropped Jon should tell you that Jon had no hand to play after his shenanigans.
The problem with Jon is that this has become a dick measuring contest. He sees himself as the GOAT, therefore he should get GOAT pay. That’s a naive view. The UFC pays only what they have to pay. Edit: And he’s not the GOAT. In spite of what Dana might say (to try to make lemonade), the UFC knows that AT BEST, Jon will be the Barry Bonds of MMA, the guy with the asterisk. Is that guy going to make you a lot of money long term? Nope. Just ask Barry Bonds. Jon’s a losing horse regardless of his fighting skill.
So then another conversation point: what were the UFC’s other options when GSP was making 10mil/fight? Let me say something wild and out of character: the person hurt the most by the Conor era has been Jon Jones, through no fault of his own. Well… but then that’s not quite true either. If you’re coming to the table, you should have some self-awareness about who else is at the table. Self-awareness hasn’t been Jones’ strong point all these years.
Jon Jones would be a billionaire right now if he wasn’t a junkie. True or False?
I don’t agree with this. I have no idea if he was underpaid or overpaid. Seems to me that he got what he agreed he was worth and contracted for. I can’t just contract to do your cabinet and then decide to not finish them and go do someone else’s without consequences just because I think I’m worth more than what I agreed to get paid to do them.
Jon is not underpaid. He got the biggest deal that he was able to get with the hand that he held. Jon should hate himself when he looks in the mirror, because you’re right that the numbers could have been bigger for him, but he has no one to blame but himself.
He signed a contract agreeing to get paid a certain amount of money. If he has the leverage to renegotiate, then more power to him. If he doesn’t have the leverage to renegotiate, then that’s just fucking life.
“You read I made $400,000 a match? No. I made a lot more than that. A lot more than that. Millions. When I was at the peak of my career, I was making many millions of dollars. Because you not only get the money to show and the money to win, but you also have a percentage of the gate and pay-per-view buys — the gate and the pay-per-views are where the real money is. That’s how fighters make their money. But you need to have the power to negotiate those terms.”
There’s part of what GSP said in regards to his pay, and I think that last sentence is one of the most important
and really applies to this situation and using Jon as a comparison. You need to have the power to negotiate those terms…
In regards Jon, he doesn’t have that power due to all the things you described in your post. All his fuck ups have come at a major cost, that he’s finally starting to see…especially in relation to other fighter’s pay. Doesn’t mean it’s fair, but it seems Jon is (and can’t stop himself from being) his own worst enemy. All the issues outside the ring, drugs, crime, peds…negotiating his own deal…dropping the belt…deciding to move up a weight class without guarantees…Those are all on Jon and are why he can’t get what he feels he’s worth.
And as far as comparing actual payouts from Jon’s ppv sales to GSP’s last fight and the 10 million dollar payday…To be clear, GSP said he made the 10 million from the PPV, sponsorships, gate etc combined…So he didn’t get 10 million from just selling 800k PPV’s alone. Should be pretty clear why Jon isn’t making the same.
Short answer to your question, no I don’t think Jon’s out of the cage issues damage his bargaining power. The only thing the UFC cares about (and rightfully so) is how much $ they can make with the guy. Endeavor is a publicly traded company, and their entire mission is to make $ for their shareholders. If they feel they can make more $ with Jon than the alternative, at the rate they need to pay Jon, then they’ll get the fight booked.
Conor was accused of rape multiple times and is on video punching old men at bars. The UFC is not concerned about any of that shit, only whether or not the events will sell. I’m not hating on them for it either, I think that’s the way it should be. These guys are fighting in cages for our entertainment, so in my opinion, I’m not concerned with their out of cage behavior. If it’s a fight I want to see, I’ll buy it.
