I actually think his wrestling is not that good.
Even against Machida, he tried a pretty sloppy inside trip against the fence and Machida shrugged it easily. Then, once on the ground, Machida got up pretty fast.
Jones is super dangerous in transitions and with elbows, and he is awesome with combining things, but his wrestling is not great.
It will be interesting to see him vs. Evans. Evans is familiar with his long reach having trained with him and Evans has better wrestling than Jones. Jones will likely still win in some crazy way, but I think he will have serious trouble with Evans' wrestling.
Quinton Jackson, Ryan Bader, Vladimir Matyushenko, Brandon Vera and Matt Hamill disagree.
In MMA, being good at transitions is what makes you a good wrestler.
its all relative.
Compared to a world team member or an olympian his freestyle and greco skills are not good at all.
For a Junior college compeitor i would say there are at the national level.
for MMA i would say they are world class.
HumbleFighter20 - its all relative.
Compared to a world team member or an olympian his freestyle and greco skills are not good at all.
For a Junior college compeitor i would say there are at the national level.
for MMA i would say they are world class.
Zing!
HumbleFighter,
I fully agree.
What is funny is JBJ's style of wrestling is very close to Greco, Euro style of Freestyle wrestling / Judo, which heavily combines sweeps/trips from clinches with Greco throws. It is not really that close to standard American folkstyle.
There are so many beasts in wrestling at 96kg in the Olympics. Take someone like Amir Ali Akbari, the 2010 World champ from Iran in Greco, he is a BEAST:
http://www.fotoglif.com/images/view/ahnjyq4ew072
Too bad MMA is not yet popular in the countries where the best wrestlers (and wrestling-based athletes) are, like Russia, Iran, Europe in general.
USA is a superpower in the sport. Up there with Russia and Iran. USA recently beat russia at a freestyle world match up in NYC.
Stylistic, jones influcence does look more greco then any other style.
Caliber wise you cant compare it to a guy like akbari.
Gokudamus stole my name - In MMA, being good at transitions is what makes you a good wrestler.
judom - I actually think his wrestling is not that good.
Even against Machida, he tried a pretty sloppy inside trip against the fence and Machida shrugged it easily. Then, once on the ground, Machida got up pretty fast.
Jones is super dangerous in transitions and with elbows, and he is awesome with combining things, but his wrestling is not great.
It will be interesting to see him vs. Evans. Evans is familiar with his long reach having trained with him and Evans has better wrestling than Jones. Jones will likely still win in some crazy way, but I think he will have serious trouble with Evans' wrestling.
You've got to be fucking kidding me. Did you see that follow up take down where he lift up Machida by his legs and then sent both of them airborne from the sheer power of his legs? No fucking way anyone is going to be able to defend a takedown against someone who has the leg strength to jump with 400 lbs of pressure of his legs.
Jon Jones has animalistic takedowns, fucking bigfoot is capable of taking down anyone at lhw, Rashad doesn't.
"I actually think his wrestling is not that good.
Even against Machida, he tried a pretty sloppy inside trip against the fence and Machida shrugged it easily. Then, once on the ground, Machida got up pretty fast."
You forgot the part where Jones, with his wrestling, took Machida down, and Jones again with his wrestling, held him there while elbowing a new landmark into his forehead
judom has unreasonably high standards.
he's also said cain's wrestling is nothing special. i see where he is coming from. But he is friggin comparing these guys to world class wrestlers at their absolute peak.
you can lambast best strikers in MMA the same way.
by the way, I have no idea why you hold Rashad's wrestling in such high regard. He wrestled at 176lbs and has shown good wrestling in MMA. But by your standard, Rashad's wrestling should be also perceived as piss poor.
Why the double standard?
Koga - Quinton Jackson, Ryan Bader, Vladimir Matyushenko, Brandon Vera and Matt Hamill disagree.
Done.
I disagree, his wrestling is what makes him very dangerous. If he didn't have good wrestling then he would have been laid and prayed a long time ago.
Jamiee - judom has unreasonably high standards.
he's also said cain's wrestling is nothing special. i see where he is coming from. But he is friggin comparing these guys to world class wrestlers at their absolute peak.
you can lambast best strikers in MMA the same way.
Agreed and he's also failing to acknowledge that in MMA there are other variables that make traditional wrestling, (any of the styles) less effective and need to be tweeked in order to work at an optimum in MMA. the striking and lack of hand fighting for example change everything. Wrestling is still the best base in order to be successful in MMA IMO but it cahnges when it becomes MMA wrestling. With that said, I think judom is a tremendous asset to our board. It's refreshing to see someone with the eastern european perspective on international wreslting. I follow freestyle closely on all levels including the world level and his knowledge is way up there.
This is easy:
Jones has 64% Take down offense
And
100% Takedown defense.
That's amazing considering the number of great wrestlers he's already faced in the UFC. Threads over.
judom - I actually think his wrestling is not that good.
Even against Machida ...
Even against Machida? I'm sorry, but since when is it an easy thing to take that guy down? Maybe I'm wrong but doesn't he have some of the best footwork in the division and wrestling good enoug to shug off Tito's takedowns and then take Tito down?
I'm sorry, but I thought Machida was supposed to be able to stuff Jones easily with his solid sumo base that frustrated all of the other wrestlers that he's faced so far. Who besides Jones has been able to do any damage to Machida after taking down?
His stats considering the wrestling ability of all the guys that he's faced in the UFC are awesome. He's taken down every single opponent that he's tried to. If that means his wrestling is piss poor by MMA standards, then the whole sport is a joke.
Hitting takedowns off strikes or from outside punch range is very different from conventional wrestling. GSP is probably not a great wrestler either, outside of MMA, but he makes it work beautifully in a fight.