Am I being unreasonable here? What do you guys think of this? I think their training method listed below is completely retarded but no one has agreed with me yet:
From: FightStudent
Date: 11/30/04 03:03 PM
Member Since: 05/28/2004
395 Total Posts Ignore User
When you guys are doing ne-waza at your club, do you stop when someone gets the pin (I mean does anyone actually time it?) or do you stop when someone gets the tap?
At this place where I do Judo, the ne-waza is really a hodge podge of some high school wrestling and some gi chokes thrown in, so I really don't know how most good clubs go about their ne-waza. If anyone could enlighten me and answer the question that I asked above, I'd appreciate it.
ADMIN: [ Delete Message : Warn User : Warn Super Admin ]
From: GROBAR
Date: 11/30/04 03:29 PM
Member Since: 09/24/2003
47 Total Posts Ignore User
well, at san jose state usually if you're going with a sempai (someone 'above' you) then you're probably at their mercy until you escape. tapping wont do you much good here. they do this to discourage getting used to tapping and doing it in a tournament and to practice your escapes. hell, sometimes when they choke you and you tap that dont mean too much. you have to fight even when being choked. in general, nobody times the pins, only when you feel its been long enough and the guy isnt getting out, then you're just wasting your time. then you can start over. or if you're the guy on top you can move around and switch pins to practice your control. hope that helps
_GROBAR
ADMIN: [ Delete Message : Warn User : Warn Super Admin ]
From: JoshuaResnick
Date: 11/30/04 05:49 PM
Member Since: 06/12/2002
5685 Total Posts Ignore User
the kohai (somebody below you) has it right. here we go by "dont get caught" first and then when you do get caught, youd damn well better fight like hell to get out.
personally, if i get a choke on somebody he is going out, or damn close if i dont have the heart. i am not good at chokes and if somebody was stupid enough to let me get the choke in then it is his own damn fault.
pins.. well, ill hold somebody in a pin until i, bored of it. when i get bored ill start to pinch, bite, whatever until the person finally fights out. sometimes people just need a little jump-start to their survival instinct.
ADMIN: [ Delete Message : Warn User : Warn Super Admin ]
From: pm1964
Date: 11/30/04 07:10 PM
Member Since: 01/01/2001
9976 Total Posts Ignore User
At our club, Fresno Judo, I'll pin until it's obvious that the other person cannot get out, then switch to another pin, or go for submission. It's rare tht we do not let somebody out of a pin if they tap (they shold expect to be verbally abused if they tap during a pin), but we always let somebody out of a choke or arm bar if they tap. We might switch to something else, not just let them up, but if they tap, we'll always loosen up.
ADMIN: [ Delete Message : Warn User : Warn Super Admin ]
From: NYC Judoka60kg
Date: 11/30/04 11:53 PM
Member Since: 01/01/2001
960 Total Posts Ignore User
When I do ne-waza, I go for whatever is there. Usually if I get the pin and I know I can hold it for as long as I want to, then I go for a submission. When I am training my guys, sometimes I usually hold the pin and make them work to get out. When I do BJJ, I HAVE to go for submission. So usually my game plan is usually to go for a sub, but if I have the pin, then I decided what to from there.
And when I am in tournament, I hold the pin. Only go for a submission if the guy is escaping.
Ricky
ADMIN: [ Delete Message : Warn User : Warn Super Admin ]
From: Nakamura's
Date: 12/01/04 11:26 AM
Member Since: 10/29/2002
13 Total Posts Ignore User
Not that I have the ultimate truth but the "good" or "ideal" thing to do is to go for the pin to control your partner and then go for 2 subs combined together (in case one fails).
So your partner will practice his pin escapes, and his submissions escapes. At the same time, you will practice your control and subs/subs combos.
Ex : Get the side mount, obtain the mount, start to choke the guy, to be able to breath he pushes your arm giving you his own arm, go fo juji-gatame in a swift motion. A classic...that still works.
Position first, submission then...unless you are a catch wrestler, but thats another story.
My 2 cents, but if you disagree, you dont know sh!t...lol :o)
ADMIN: [ Delete Message : Warn User : Warn Super Admin ]
From: FatBuddha
Date: 12/01/04 03:23 PM
Member Since: 01/01/2001
2044 Total Posts Ignore User
Edit
doesn't seem like a real healthy or intelligent way to train newaza (not letting a choke go even when someone taps)
ADMIN: [ Delete Message : Warn User : Warn Super Admin ]
From: molsonman
Date: 12/01/04 04:11 PM
Member Since: 01/01/2001
3285 Total Posts Ignore User
I prefer to go for submissions. I will hold someone in a pin and control them while they attempt to escape. After a while I will let the pin go and try for a submission.
ADMIN: [ Delete Message : Warn User : Warn Super Admin ]
From: JoshuaResnick
Date: 12/01/04 05:10 PM
Member Since: 06/12/2002
5690 Total Posts Ignore User
FB, its a good thing you arent here then. its called learning the hard way and its a huge part of why sjs is where it is and why we can take players from being white belts to good players in a few years time.
ADMIN: [ Delete Message : Warn User : Warn Super Admin ]
From: FightStudent
Date: 12/01/04 06:12 PM
Member Since: 05/28/2004
406 Total Posts Ignore User
I would be inclined to agree with Josh that it could be a good strategy because when I have coached wrestling I have used a similar approach and have been able to bring the best out in my guys fast, although I think few things could compare, in terms of difficulty and in terms of a gut check, with being slowly choked out.