Let's get this out in the open - Judo needs to change
Personal feelings aside - lets get the facts straight
Judo rules on the ground are too restricting and they make us not even want to try
LETS GET RID OF THE TURTLE
http://www.judoinfo.com/weers5.htm
"It was very interesting to note that some of the very best Judo players in the world, including Koga, of Japan, Hajtos of Hungary and our own Jason Morris, simply walked away from opponents when they adopted the Turtle position.
Of the 548 incidents only 17 of these exchanges resulted in the defensive player being attacked successfully for a score. These statistics show a 3.1% probability of successfully attacking the Turtle."
NOW CMON! The turtle teaches us bad habbits, it promotes inactivity,
http://members.lycos.co.uk/fight/judo/judo.html
In fact, truth be told; todays BJJ/GJJ players have a more direct route to Kano than the current crop of "Sport Judo" fighters! Current Judo people have ONLY seen what the IJF rules say Judo is, and that AFTER the MacArthur ban (something Brazil didn't have to deal with). Now; like ANY country that has taken Judo home with it; the BJJ/GJJ people have focused on a certin aspect and improved upon those aspects. Clearly the top BJJ/GJJ fighters are at the top of the world with their Newaza skills.
TOO MANY BELTS
Notice nowhere did Dr. Kano every think that belts would be used as a way to acquire profit? Also, there were far fewer levels. Fewer belts! Less money!
A belt system to show the difference between beginning, intermediate, and advanced students. 2. A "lesson plan" that taught the basic skills then built on them to advanced skills. 3. Katas to preserve tradition. 4. Randori and Shiai as the new "battlefield" to test your techniques.
http://www.judoinfo.com/ques.htm
"Q Sensei, I've been told that the "pistol grip" is no longer an approved technique in competition. Can you please tell me what the pistol grip is exactly and why it can no longer be applied. Ooohs!
A The pistol grip is not allowed in IJF competition because it's primarily a defensive position that is used to keep your opponent from attacking successfully. It is done by gripping the end of the opponent's sleeve at the opening. It is usually done at the bottom of the sleeve under the opponent's hand but can be above the wrist also. Grabbing the end of the sleeve with the fingers or thumb inside has long been illegal, but now if you grab the end of the sleeve with the fingers on one side and the thumb on the other (like a pistol) it is also penalized.
Neil Ohlenkamp"
Turtle is a bad habbit but allowing to pin by counting rear mount with hooks in as pin would be a radical change and will never happen. If we allowed more ground time this would give more chances to break the turtle. Another thing about the turtle or people walking away is rest. I oft sloppiply attack a turtle cause i want to catch my breath while sitting down with 300lb on top of him. Then again groundwork is about as fun to watch as pain drying so I doubt they'll boost it. ( and i do alot of grappling. it's fun to do. it's boring to watch)
I haven't payed a cent to get to brown. We have a bunch of diff belt colors and the only way to get the next one is to go to a tourney and kick ass. Fewer belts you have more the desparity between player in the division. I'v ripped through all my lower belts competition because people who were there were usualy withing couple of month of training time of me. Now at brown I fight black all the time and i've fought people that medaled in nationals 12 times with me training for only 3y. You don't want people with say 3y xp fighting 5y of xp to get the next belt unless the 3yxp guy specifically wants that. My attitude makes me enjoy fighting really really bad odds all the time but it would be unfair to make it an inherent part of the system by limiting it to just a couple of belts.
Grips were limited cause it allowed for stalling. Essentialy they are trying to elliminate everything that is a stall tactic. That's why things like single side and belt and pants are allowed the 1 attack per 5 seconds rules. That way you can still use em but you can't use the grip to stall.
Me liky leg locks. Wish there was a solid Sambo federation with competitions in Canada. I'd do that instead of Judo. I love their rules. They make alot more sence.
I'd say yes to everything, but getting rid of the turtle. You can't have pins and not have a turtle. There wouldn't be any safe place to go. I think more ground time would be good, since you could crack the turtle better or get ahold of a submission easier. People would probally turtle less possibly develope guard more if they couldn't use the turtle or had to defend it longer if they chose to be there. The turtle I think would develope into more of a transitory position like it is in bjj currently. I never turtle in judo rules myself. If I do, I immediately roll to guard or roll into a rolling kneebar(don't crank it or even attempt to, but use the position to get it stood up or get back to my guard sometimes or sweep them.) The guard can be just as effective as the turtle as a defensive posture if you chose to make it so.
Its amazing how people turn their back to avoid a side control - I think we give too many points for side control and should give way more for taking the back - and should allow for less time to award points for taking the back.
More time to break the turtle would be acceptable - I mean we need a stop watch instead of a refs judgement - plus adding leg locks would fix that issue...two birds one stone!
why dont we stop giving ippon scores for throws that dont put tori directly into a submission.
we could also give people points for getting in their hooks.
we could eliminate the gi as well.
and allow the fish-hook to become a valid submission technique.
or.. even better, we can just change the game completely for the few people who would like judo to adapt to them becuase they cant seem to win in the sport otherwise.
JAA.. truth is that as understandable as some of your ideas might be, they are far from original and you are far from somebody who knows a damn thing about judo really so you shouldnt be judging it.
there are other sports that do all the things you like, go and enjoy them. trust me, the judo world will go on without you.
If I was Joshua, I would say the same thing because this way less people would be interested in the sport and he can continue to think that he is an excellent grappler.
Name of the game is cross training now. The reason I called judo a country club martial art is because it frowns on cross training. Joshua is my posterboy for the club.
Getting rid of the Turtle. Why? It doesn't detract from enjoyment of the sport except for a few. I always enjoyed busting open someone's turtle, there is certainly skill involved much like passing guard, sweeping etc in the BJJ world. "The turtle teaches us bad habbits, it promotes inactivity": no, it encourages people to focus on throwing which, by and large, is what modern competitive judo is about.
Belts: I had no problem with it - gave me something to strive for, a goal for the short term while I was younger and appropriately stretched as I got older.
Grips: makes a lot of sense if you're emphasis is throwing. Look at the Mundial 2004 for standing-stalling in action, thanks, in part, to very relaxed grip rules.
Leg Locks: cool, practice them if you want to but there is no reason to include them in the competitive sport: there's more than enough to keep even the most talented player occupied already. Also, having suffered a knee-reconstruction already, the less I have to gamble with my mobility the better - leave lower body submissions out.
Competitive sport is all about defining a limited set of rules limiting participants actions. That way you can compare your skills vs anothers. If the sport doesn't suit you (for whatever reason) you either do another one or create your own. Pretty simple really.
Being part of BJJ for so long - I guess I am used to the art changing. BJJ rules have changed so much in the last 5 years because of people abusing the rules and to allow wrestlers to have a better chance. Before if you took someone down and you went straight to guard - there was no points given. Now there are points awarded. Its a huge change.
Judo rules seem to have no reason other than to promote bad habbits.
Judo rules been changing since befor BJJ or GJJ existed. They still do. Last set came down I think roughly 1 y ago and they were big big changes so I don't see your point. Golden Score is a big rule change, very very big. Pistol grip is a fairly significant rule. New penalty counting system is a big change. You just don't know these details and make uneducated points.
p.s. Next time I see a guy basicaly start a match sitting on on his ass ala Eddie Bravo i'll be sure to explain him how that is not at all a bad habbit and in a real fight it is a wonderfull way to get kicked in the teeth.
"Judo rules seem to have no reason other than to promote bad habbits"
Bad habits relative to what? You seem to be just complaining that judo is not what YOU want. If some guy is in judo to stay in shape, the rules are almost perfect. Do you go on wrestling boards and complain they don't allow chokes? Or do you accept that olypmic wrestling is a SPORT. I don't know about you but I haven't been in a fist fight since I was like 11...
Don't Judo rules change all the time? Does anyone complain that rules such as gripping limitations take away from what Judo really is? So why then when there is any talk of any rule change that would encourage more Ne-Waza people are told to go practice other arts rather than trying to change the current rules of Judo?
It seems as though if any rule change is proposed that encourages action up on the feet and increased emphasis on throws, it is not considered as going against the spirit of Judo, but anything to encourage Ne-waza or increase the pace at which it is played is considered an affront to Judo. Is the IJF the only entity that is allowed to propose any changes in the ruels without being told to switch sports?
Example of a recent rule change to ne-waza that has increased the pace at which it's played: reducing holddowns by 5 seconds to 25 seconds.
The IJF is a collective, political body. Changes are likely proposed and rejected on a regular basis. The fact that changes are debated well prior to implementation provides a degree of consistency in the rules and enables development of long-term coaching and competitive strategy.
This is quite different to other less organised relatively immature sports where the differentiation between the executive, competitors and franchises is less distinct. Competitive Judo and a comprehensive rulebook is nothing new, one would think that many a splinter group has formed due to different interpretations of rules, technique and practice (e.g., BJJ? ;-) ) but the IJF still remains as one of the largest sporting organisations in the world.
JAA.. like i said.. if you had any ability to succeed in judo you wouldnt be sitting here telling us how to make the sport better so more people like you would enter it.
truth is, you dont have the work ethic to be good enough in judo to succeed no matter what the rule set.
i hardly believe that you hold your own in any grappling venue.