"i hardly believe that you hold your own in any grappling venue."
pick one, enter it, and say good bye to oxygen
lets do this
I am going to the Arnold's anyways...cya there
Dutch Law:
you said,
"The IJF is a collective, political body. Changes are likely proposed and rejected on a regular basis. The fact that changes are debated well prior to implementation provides a degree of consistency in the rules and enables development of long-term coaching and competitive strategy."
When has anyone debated this? What I asked in my post was why whenever any rule change is proposed on here related to Ne-Waza people are told to practice other sports and leave Judo alone (I'm not quoting exactly, but that is the sentiment that is expressed)?
I don't think anyone here is suggesting that the IJF not be involved or that no debate take place well prior to the implementation of a rule change, they are only making suggestions about rule changes that they feel would help the sport in one way or another. I think it is an example of sheer idiocy that only someone who is a part of the IJF can make a suggestion for a rule change and not be told to play another sport or to leave Judo alone.
Furthermore, why does this objection almost always surface whenever someone wants to do something that would "improve" the ne-waza aspect of the Judo game? Why this hate for any suggestion that Judo's current Ne-Waza rules could be improved upon for a variety of reasons? The objections to rule changes never really flow unless it has something to do with Ne-Waza. Someone could come on here and make suggestion after suggestion about rule changes and so long as it has nothing to do with Ne-Waza, they'll never be flamed. It just makes no sense.
Ne-Waza is absolutely a part of Judo and we are just as entitled to think of ways to improve how our art is played on the ground as we are on the feet. Or is it that some think that Ne-Waza is not a part of Judo?
I just don't understand it and don't think that anyone is gonna really answer why everyone gets so much flack for suggesting that the IJF take a look at making some rule changes when it comes to Ne-Waza, while if someone were to do the same when it comes to Judo up on the feet they won't get any of that.
That's a good question!
I think its because they are afraid some excellent players will come in and mess up the country club with toe holds and ankle locks...
"mess up the country club"
i mean really, where do you train? are you still in the beginners class
doing break falls?
JAA.
why dont you tell sambo to allow chokes.
tell BJJ to allow for ippon throws.
tell wrestling and no-gi grapplers to wear clothes becuase nobody really likes to fight or roll around with other men when naked.
then tell football to start using a baseball becuase they wear facemasks anyways.
get basketball to allow rugby hits
and tell golf that it would be a lot more interesting if they allowed grizzly bears to roam the greens.
when you do that, then you can come back to us and make suggestions about judo..
then again, if you get sambo to allow chokes and bjj to allow for ipon throws and wrestlers to wear a gi youd have just made all of them into the same sport and that would be dull as hell.
judo is as judo is.. you just suck-ass at it and cant handle that. you dont want to cross-train in different things, you want to make those things fit your comfrot zone.
you cant embrace judo for what it is becuaseyou are mad that you arent any fuckin good at newaza unless you can use a leglock to crack open a turtle. how pathetic, cause there are lots of judo guys i know who can crack open a turtle within the rules of judo.
which.. if you werent so stupid, youd have looked up the rules to judo an youd know that newaza has unlimited time so long as there is constant action that is leading to actual progress.
"I think it is an example of sheer idiocy that only someone who is a part of the IJF can make a suggestion for a rule change and not be told to play another sport or to leave Judo alone..."
It makes perfect sense to me: central features of the organisation, like the rules used during competition, are controlled by the organisation's members. When an organisation has tens of thousands of members, clearly gathering an educated consenus then converting that into change isn't going to be a rapid process... so that's why various committees are created to debated, implement and administer such things. The IJF has a Sports Commission whose role/function includes "...to study the competition system and the rules that are likely to improve them".
The Sports Comission is comprised of Sports Director of the IJF, who is the chair of the commission, and one member from each Continental Union (being 5 in number).
I'll take a stab in the dark and guess that the majority of people who think rule changes would be a good thing are from America: well you're in luck, the Panamerican commission rep is Frank Fullerton from El Paso Texas, so if you feel passionately about it, why don't you give him a call on (1+915) 565 8754 and ask how to go about changing things? 'cause I dare say Frank is passionate about Judo and making it the best sport possible.
BTW the Oceania commissioner is Peter Herman (who incidently I have I previously trained with), whose credits included: - 7th Dan; Silver Medal at 1969 World Championships; National Coach, French Judo Federation 1972-1980; National Elite Coaching Director, Judo Federation of Australia since 1983; Oceania Judo Union Technical Director since 1992... suggesting a better than average tactical and strategic appreciation of the game.
Last figures I read, there were approximately 2.2 million registered judokas in 180 countries.
The aim of the IJF is as follows. This comes from their statutes:
Among others, the IJF has the following aims:
a. To promote cordial and friendly relations between its members and to supervise judo activity throughout the world.
b. To protect the interest of judo throughout the world.
c. To organize, in collaboration with the five Continental Unions, the IJF Events (at regular intervals) as well as the judo competitions for the Olympic Games. The right to organize the World Championships and international events will only be given to countries who are able to guarantee entry into their territory of all participants of Members Federations wishing to participate.
d. To organize judo throughout the world and to develop and spread the practice of judo particularly amongst the youth.
e. To establish the international regulations of judo.
f. To support and maintain the ideals and objectives of the Olympic Movement.
You can read the statutes at this website.
http://www.ijf.org/rule/rule_role_mission.php#1
You raise some good points. The question is, do your proposed changes further the aims of the IJF or do they not? I don't know the answer. Here's what you have to figure out.
1) Will the rule changes make judo more appealling, not just to you, but to competitors, coaches,senseis, students and in particular younger students?
2) Do the rule changes promote the spirit of judo?
3) Do the rule changes maintain the ideals and objectives of the Olympic movement?
4) Will the rule changes promote greater knowledge about judo, and will the rule changes create more excitement in judo competition? This is important as far as growing the sport.
Judokas and dojos have alot of leeway how they practice and promote the sport. When they step on the mat in international competition, then they are subject to the rules and regulations of the IJF.
It would be interesting to see some "modified" rule judo tournaments in the United States and see what the response is. As long as they were insured events. Then, someone can get the response of the competitors, coaches, spectators and referees. Do it for 2 years, show the results to the JI, the unions or the IJF.
That's an interesting prespective re the ranks in judo being a hinderance to to the sport. The rank requirements are not solely competitive nor technical, therefore to achieve a rank you have to master a variety of things - because "Judo" more than just competitions - which typically means you have to dedicate some time and effort to the cause. Not everyone has the appitude nor resources to meet the requirements, so its pretty obvious that not everybody is going to achieve their Black Belt (for example).
The majority of tournaments I've competed in have been by weight and age divisions, without limiting the divsion(s) to certain ranks (maybe with the exlusion of white belts, but considering ones first Judo grade is a matter of weeks or months this typically doesn't pose a big problem).
Re the BJJ competitor entering Judo competitions: I did the opposite but had to bid my time for the various ranks despite some significant competittion success. I felt (somewhat) sorry for those white belts I beat during my first BJJ competitions but I was a BJJ beginner, despite my competitive abilities, afterall. On a related note, I personally think the segregation of BJJ competitions by belt is a big issue and is crippling the sports growth.
"But rules aside, I believe the biggest problem in Judo is the
requirements for rank promotion. If you are a good wrestler or BJJ
player that moves into judo and does well in judo tournaments you
should get promoted based on that. Right now the judo syllabus is too
strict. To move from belt to belt you need to be technically proficient in
a certain throw / technique. Some of these throws are low percentage
throws that are hardly used in tournaments. The best that can happen
to judo is get rid of belts and be like wrestling where there are no belts
and tournament success is what sets you apart."
Judo just isnt about about people going in to tournaments, and
winning and losing. Its also about learning the sport and passing that
knowledge on.
Plus you still need to know the basics.
Plus not everyone wants to compete. What about the older guy who
comes in, trains hard, gets better and better, learns the techinques, as
well as becomes good as his throw(s). He should be promoted? He
could of course could be a asset to the dojo, teaching and maybe
helping the younger kids. But cant he never gets promoted.
JAA made some good points.
Lol @ Joshua's assholery.
So sad.
I believe that judo should make some changes. For example, allowing more time to transition into newaza and giving stalling or non-combativity penalties to those who are avoiding the transition into newaza. If a player crawls off the mat or happens to go out of bounds during the transition into newaza, he should also get penalized just like he would if it happened while he was on his feet.
However, I don't think that the belt system should change. I don't think the requirements are that difficult in judo. If you want a throw to work in a tournament, you need to practice it and practice it a lot. Learning the different types of throws will give you a basic understanding of how each throw works and is performed; however, to make it work in a tournament, you have to understand more than just the basics.
JoshuaResnick can say anything he wants - if he wants to throw the MMA gloves on and do it - I am game!
But I am sure he will say that he doesnt cross train and that he is above such brutal fighting. I'm not!
I am helping two guys in my gym get ready for the VFC (a small local MMA event at the casino) this weekend and I got in fighting shape along with them.
I mentioned the Arnold's because they have a MMA event and I am sure we could arrange a session.
Josh might be upset that with so few people in judo he still isnt anybody...
JAA.. i said it once, ill say it again.. you are more than welcome to come to anyplace i am training at and find out for yourself. im not hard to find, im sure most people in the USA know the way to San Jose and Milwaukee isnt hard to find either-- just follow the beer wagon.
im sorry you feel so passionately about changing judo just becuase you cant succeed in it. its really sad. i wish you would have started it earlier in life so you wouldnt feel like such the failure.
its natural that youd want to bring me into an MMA setting becuase thats what people like you want everything else in the world to be-- something it isnt. you cant accept that judo is judo, sambo is sambo, wrestling is wresting and on down the line. you want them to be only what you are good at and willing to participate in.
nothing more than a spolied brat who isnt happy with what he's spent his life doing.
it is one thing for somebody who had dedicated himself to a sport to say how the rules should be changed for the betterment of the sport.
it is another thing for people to try to bring two sports together in the name of friendly competition.
what JAA is saying is neither. he is meerly trying to troll the sport of judo so that he, and his friends, can win a few matches and have bragging rights of some sort.
its complete bullshit and 100% more disrespectful to judo than i have been to him.
Judo is tough on your body.
Whats worse? Being thrown by the new guy just learning, and you dont
really know what the hell the guy is going to do (and he most likely
doesnt know either). Or being smashed by a national ranked judoka,
over and over again?
I have seen the new kid get smashed too, his first class out of the
beginners class.
Though in practice trying to spin out of throws etc, could have some
adverse effects on your body.
"That's my take, this is a serious problem in judo, the fact that the
same throw is trained infinite times so that you can pass your belt test.
This leads to injuries and doesn't necessarily make you better at
randori, where the throws are less structured."
I think alot of people end up doing uchi komi one way, and that throw
another way in randori.
As far as newaza, in judo if someone really doesnt want to do newaza
and just turtles, you can try to attack for something, and try. In BJJ if
someone doesnt want to stand, and try for a takedown, they dont have
to. They can pull guard etc.
Does Judo have stalling on the ground? Yes
Does BJJ have stalling on the ground? Yes
What about the big wrestler how takes his man down and holds him
there? Is that exciting? Happens in MMA, submission wrestling.
Its kinda funny coming over to the judo realm to discuss things with you guys.
I find that people like JoshuaResnick talk alot of shit because they don't have to actually fight. In the MMA/BJJ world people don't talk that much shit unless they want to exchange leather.
I dont compete in judo because judo is boring. Sorry guys, its just that the sport is not exciting. Not to mention judo guys have a chip on their shoulder. Look at how Josh responds! I gave him the perfect chance to meet up at a great event to impose his will on other grapplers, and all he can do is say - find me in San Jose... Basically he is saying that cross training is pointless and that he already knows enough newaza...Got new for you - you don't.
We would be a good fight.
As for disrespecting judo - you do a good enough job doing that yourself. And as America Judo falls apart in front of your eyes, all you can do is attack those who are interested in saving it. 10 years from now Judo will be handball unless you do something.
As for finding you - we can setup a MMA fight in CA! I have friends in Orange County that can set it up. I would have rather fought at the Arnolds so that you could have a chance to see what high level BJJ has to offer the sport of judo. But I can manage without.
JA-
You're sounding like an ass now with your 15 year old challenge requests. Sounds like you want the competative infrastructure of judo without actually having to learn it. Tournament judo is a sport, just like BJJ, etc. When a guy beats you in BJJ do you challenge him to a fight? Do you think guys should be able to punch each other in the face in grip fighting? I think judo should stay as it is just to keep guys like you OUT. We don't need the MMA guys, they are not "value add".
Whats worse? Being thrown by the new guy just learning, and you dont really know what the hell the guy is going to do (and he most likely doesnt know either). Or being smashed by a national ranked judoka, over and over again?
new guy!
We dont challenge anyone to a fight unless some serious shit is exchanged...
then there is a fight.
I just assume that he wants to fight...why else would he type shit? I was giving him the chance to do shut me up and get compete at one of the biggest BJJ/MMA events in the midwest.
You guys are right
I don't belong in judo - in my world when you talk shit - people fight. In your world people talk shit - then say come get me at my gym with my rules...
If Joshua is your Judo posterboy - and it seems like he is - I am done with Judo. I won't post here again.
Parting words - Judo is falling apart while other martial arts flourish - DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!
cya guys in the BJJ - MMA world
I will check back to see if Josh wants to meet up for a friendly fight where/when he wants.
Thomas Mitchell ipponed the correct.
Besides Joshua knows plenty about "high level bjj". You only need to spend a little time discussing this with him, not coming onto a Judo Forum and telling all these players their sport needs to change.
And the MMA challenge.....please....lol
Good ridance. Next time you want to troll a sport at least do some research into the rules.